the role of yaoi/anime bL in the “gay” tif (specifically tumblr/twt) community

submitted by gencritcurious from self.GenderCritical

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[–]slushpilot 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You said "let them take responsibility for their own choices"...

My point is that young people can easily develop unhealthy obsessions with media—especially unrealistic sexual/pornographic media—and I don't think it's wrong to point out the dangers of that. Mainly, I don't think you can simply blame children for falling headlong into these fantasies.

I'm not speaking against anime & manga in general, or even erotic art. But I really don't think teenagers should be consuming so much fantasy about relationships & sex at the exclusion of figuring out actual real-life relationships for themselves.

You're probably right that most people outside of Japan don't necessarily know about the variety of themes discussed in graphic media there. And that's part of the problem too: allowing unchecked, uncritical consumption of all of it it by children, without really understanding that some of it might be inappropriate for their age.

[–]YoutiaoLover 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with you. It's like saying: we all know knives can be dangerous so when children--who weren't warned about the danger--stab themselves with a knife, they are responsible for hurting themselves. Most of the time, children are victims and ended up this way because adults around them failed to supervise and teach them to separate reality and fiction.

My nephews and nieces watched YouTube since they were babies. At the age of 7 they go browsing the internet without supervision, watching and reading any content they want. Their parents and other adults are downplaying the dangers lurking in internet because "They're kids!" "Internet isn't as dangerous as you think." "What? Do you think MY kid is going to access porn or something? lol."🤦🤦🤦

Unfortunately parents like that are EVERYWHERE now. They're failing their children and I can't help but think that this generation is fucked.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's my niece too. Years ago when she was that age I tried to warn her parents but got eye rolls.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

But I really don't think teenagers should be consuming so much fantasy about relationships & sex at the exclusion of figuring out actual real-life relationships for themselves.

Teenagers aren't children. There has always been fantasies about relationships and sex in media. And before media was as accessible as it is today, "teenagers" were getting married and starting families. The age people started having sex is going up, but mostly that's not seen as a bad thing. It's true that gen X and baby boomers had sex earlier on average, but whether that's good or bad is up for debate.

Moreover, the teenagers solely exploring sexual themes online are usually the ones who weren't able to find real life relationships anyway, speaking as someone who was one of those teenagers. The alternative wasn't me going out and meeting other teenaged lesbians, the alternative was nothing at all. I was the only lesbian I knew growing up and I was smart enough to hide it from my parents.

I was probably more exposed to sexual themes than het teenagers on account of how predatory people can be towards lesbians. I've ran into couples seeking threesomes in lesbian spaces since I was 14 or 15. Nevertheless, I think online was, in many ways, safer than real life. I was largely able to set the pace for what I felt comfortable seeing. If I didn't like something, I closed the window. If I didn't like certain words, I stopped reading. There's a choice. If there wasn't, most of my friends and I would be trans, considering we all grew up in the same way.

most people outside of Japan don't necessarily know about the variety of themes discussed in graphic media there. And that's part of the problem too: allowing unchecked, uncritical consumption of all of it it by children, without really understanding that some of it might be inappropriate for their age.

Nah, most people within the east Asian sphere know about the variety of themes and stories in anime. Most westerners who don't understand assume it's violence or porn.

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"Teenagers aren't children."

What do you mean here?

A teenager is a pretty modern invention.

Certainly in law they are children.

Biologically the brain doesn't fully mature until we are 25. At 16 a person still has many childlike ways of thinking (they actually see the world differently) which adults don't have.

How does being a teenager mean they are safe to view porn when a child isn't?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My TIF niece isn't even a teenager yet and it got to her before she was even twelve.

I do a lot of adolescent health and they are definitely children.

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Teenager is a pretty modern invention. For most of human history, people handled adult responsibilities just fine at 16. In Germany, 16 year olds can drink and have sex. In USA, they can drive and join the army (with their parents' consent). Depending on your view on porn, some would argue that there isn't a "safe" age to view porn. But I'd certainly say there's a difference between a 16 year old, one who is legally allowed to have sex, viewing porn, as opposed to, say, a 6 year old, or even a 9 year old.

[–]slushpilot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In most of human history girls were married off shortly after menarch. Great baseline to aspire to there.

[–]just_lesbian_things 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

False equivalence. "Teenagers" being expected to and capable of handling adult responsibilities for most of human history does not mean we should marry girls off just after menarche.

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good grief, what do you think adult responsibility implies if not responsibility around sex and what that implies for women. We're not talking about the historic responsibilities of feeding the chickens and milking the cow here.

Of course we know teenagers do things like drink & have sex, and always have. This doesn't mean as a society we should encourage it and pretend that, say, a 13-years old is responsible enough. I don't know why you keep subtly pushing up the example age to 16 when we both know puberty, sexual curiosity and consumption of this media online starts much earlier than that—often long before the sexual experience needed to put it in context.

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We're not talking about the historic responsibilities of feeding the chickens and milking the cow here.

Historic responsibilities like running a household or joining the army. Again, this isn't commentary on what they should be doing, it's on what they can be doing. If we can count on 14 year olds to get married and manage a household in the 1700s, we should theoretically be able to count on 14 year olds in 2020 to not get "brainwashed into taking cross sex hormones" by videos on the internet that nobody is forcing them to watch.

we know teenagers do things like drink & have sex, and always have. This doesn't mean as a society we should encourage it

If you've actually read my other comments in this thread, I don't encourage teenagers to drink and have sex. I simply don't agree with the infantilization of teenagers, who, for most of human history, have been considered adults. If we're going to allow 14 year olds to consent to sex, 16 year olds to drive, and 18 year olds to join the army, then I think it's time they're expected to exercise some personal responsibilities as well; it comes with the territory. You've got people calling 19-21 year olds "children" these days.

I don't know why you keep subtly pushing up the example age to 16

The comment I was responding to listed 16 as an example, so I followed suit. If you're going to insert yourself into a conversation, at least read enough of it so you don't make ridiculous accusations like this. I didn't say anything about 16 year olds when I responded to you. Nobody is being subtle, you're inferring intentions that aren't there.