you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]MarkTwainiac 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Yes, 50% of the trans population had "at least one PD diagnosis" whereas the paper says 15% of the entire population have PDs. Makes me wonder if you subtracted all the attention-seekers now claiming to be trans and gender speshul from the rest of the population who don't believe in gender identity and ideology, what the % of PDs amongst the "non-trans" population would turn out to be.

My own sense is that gender ideology is a magnet for - and an invention, social engineering project of and political movement of - people of both sexes with Cluster B PDs who want to remake the entire world in their own image and force the rest of the population not just to meet their demands and proclivities, but to center them. However, there do seem to be sex differences.

Amongst males, cross-sex identity often seems to be an expression and outgrowth of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or aspects of it, combined with a whole lot of unbridled male sexual fetishism. However, I think NPD traits and the full-blown disorder are actually under-diagnosed in males cuz a lot of traits that would be considered indicative of clinical narcissism and NPD in female people are seen as normal aspects of boys men with a healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity and males "rightful place" as superior beings meant to enjoy highest status in the world.

By contrast, my impression is that amongst females Borderline Personality Disorder is way over-diagnosed. The characteristics that clinicians often perceive as indicative of BPD in women are commonly tied up with coping responses to sex abuse and other traumas as well as being constantly subjected to misogyny, second-class status and belittlement. When females adopt a trans identity, it's often as a response to these same factors, along with confusion about sexuality and internalized homophobia. Which is one of the reasons a lot of us think the entire concept of Bordlerline Personality Disorder is sexist and suspect.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

people of both sexes with Cluster B PDs who want to remake the entire world in their own image and force the rest of the population not just to meet their demands and proclivities, but to center them.

This has been exactly my experience, in microcosm.

No amount of empathy, hormones, conformation surgery is enough, and the entire family becomes enmeshed in narcissistic/borderline care-taking.

[–]FediNetizen 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

However, I think NPD traits and the full-blown disorder are actually under-diagnosed in males cuz a lot of traits that would be considered indicative of clinical narcissism and NPD in female people are seen as normal aspects of boys men with a healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity and males "rightful place" as superior beings meant to enjoy highest status in the world.

Men already make up the majority of those diagnosed with NPD and some of the diagnostic criteria swing more towards what tends to drive men (success and power) anyways. However, that doesn't mean there's anything sexist about the concept of NPD.

Which is one of the reasons a lot of us think the entire concept of Bordlerline Personality Disorder is sexist and suspect.

Something like 75% of Psychology PhDs are women. Last year, the APA released "guidance" that stated that traditional masculinity ("anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence", per their own guidellines) is harmful. If there is any sexism in the field of psychology, it's against men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Link to the APA guidance to which you are referring would be much appreciated.

Or could it possibly be that you mean this document that doesn't seem to support your claims: https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf

[–]FediNetizen 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Or could it possibly be that you don't mean this document that doesn't seem to support your claims

It could possibly be that. Or it could be that you should have looked at it a little more closely. From the definitions page, which I pulled from word for word:

Masculinity Ideology: ...standards that have held sway over large segments of the population, including: anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence. *These have been collectively referred to as traditional masculinity ideology** (Levant & Richmond, 2007)*

Now peruse through the document and check their references to traditional masculinity. Basically everything they have to say about it is negative. If you think I'm bullshitting, feel free to actually read what they have to say about it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have looked through this document in search of evidence supporting your claim that "everything they have to say" about "traditional masculinity" "is a negative." But somehow I missed it. Please quote and c&p the particular passages to which you are referring. Cuz my feeble "lady brain" can't discern them. Thank you

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have a personal theory that in a society built on power dynamics of dominance/submission, all those who end up in a dominant role are at high risk of developing narcissism or narcissistic traits towards those in the submissive roles.

It's also important to note that BPD is literally a fear of being abandoned. I believe the modern transmovement with their cult-like hugboxing, community and the perceived social elevation would be a magnet for those suffering from that.

[–]catoboros 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Complex PTSD is an emerging diagnosis (not yet in DSM) that may be a more accurate description of some abuse survivors.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

NPD is not what most of you think it is just because you see "narcissist" does not mean you understand what this means.

I can't fathom someone with NPD identifying as a different gender publicly because they think they are flawless the way they are. Even the notion of being associated with a mental disorder like gender disphoria or having to have plastic surgery to drastically change their body sounds extremely out of place for someone with NPD. Even worse, having to see a therapist or doctors to fix them that is just not what NPD's do. NPD's do not do self reflection ever.

I can see the study where NPD was only 5% being most correct. Men are diagnosed more as NPD and it is very hard to mistake "healthy, well-developed sense of masculinity" with someone with NPD. There is a huge difference. So I have no clue wtf you are on about there.

Looking into the study the only study that reports a high number of NPD cases is a study based on self report questionnaire in Iran where sex resignment is mandatory for homosexual people so there are a lot of issues with that one.

I do see people with NPD being TRA's though as the virtue signalling without having to put effort in it and yet getting instant gratification sounds just like NPD heaven.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No, NPD is indeed common in trans people. One of the clinical indicators for NPD is actually envy.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

your comment makes no sense. Just because someone is envious does not turn them trans.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You just said people with NPD do not become envious of other people because they think they're already perfect. I said that you are clinically speaking wrong.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never said they were never envious. It's just that their envy is not about other people but what those people have. They don't consider others as human. You don't get envious of a chair or a spoon.

They want things that are important to them but they will twist anything so it works for them. Like I said I see them being TRA's. I also see them pushing their children into being trans as it will get them attention without too much effort.

Them sitting in a doctors chair telling someone they are not happy with their body or their life? Nah do not see that happening.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah and what those other people have is opposite-sexed bodies, in the case of trans people.

It is something that is documented, so whether you "see it" or not is besides the point