So You Care About Womens' Rights. What Are You Going To Do About It? (FEEDBACK REQUESTED PLEASE)

submitted by dancing_with_durga from self.GenderCritical

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[–]malleus_maleficarum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

If that shelter has a TIM in it, it's unusable by me or any woman I care about. Shut the shelter down and end all funding, revoke the social workers' licenses, and repurpose the property. I consider the women who run it and let TIMs in to be traitors -- I don't want them in my home, my life, or my support network. People in positions of trust should feel the backlash when they betray that trust by compromising the values of their mission.

Edit. Also, thank you for proving my point. How hot will you let the bathwater get before you realize you're boiling?

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was assuming the original commenter meant to cancel donations to women-erasing organisations & move the money to ones that do support women, rather than just taking money away from causes. Giving the baby new bath water so to speak.

However, setting aside any personal feelings, I do strongly believe that if we want to be politically effective we need to be ruthless about that effectiveness. I just don't think that language in a public forum like "burn down the shelter" or "I will stand by while someone is raped" is ever going to help us, even if the anger behind it is deserved, even if the other side is worse, I just don't think it is ever helpful. Vent to a friend in life if you have to, but leaving statements like that up in gender critical forums is only going to give others an excuse to demonise us.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can certainly see where you are coming from and you raise valid points. But I've already had to ruthlessly cut out women in my life who are career social workers who would cheerfully make you and I share a room in a shelter with a TIM. That's real and immediate and I will not allow those women back into my life, my home, my support network, my trust, etc. They have prioritzed predatory men over other women. They can get help from those men instead of from me.

"I will stand by while someone is raped"

But that isn't what I said. Please be careful not to misrepresent those of us you disagree with.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for your reply, and I would like to make it clear I don't disagree with you about outrage against people who fail to protect womens' most critical safe spaces. It is completely outrageous, it is gaslighting, it is cowardly betrayal, I don't blame you at all for cutting those women out of your life. The issue I was raising is tactics & not giving the other side weapons to use against us. Sorry for putting (what I thought was) a paraphrase into quotes.

edited to add: When I first started peaking I went looking for the best arguments I could find in favour of the trans ideology. The TRAs would do their best to paint radfems as hateful witches, and it was really obvious to me that their attempts to find the worst things feminists had done/said were incredibly tame compared with the violence and harassment on their side. But when I read that comment of yours that I replied to I could really clearly imagine a TRA cutting and pasting it, quoting it out of context as "See, this is what they're like." It's not fair that we have to be so much more careful with what we say but it's just how it is because they have all the power.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that's a very good point and I'll amend my comment accordingly.

PS: This is an example of how to interact when you disagree with people.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Women who use those services aren’t in a position to choose. I’m not going to deny them the one life line they have. I’ve met women on those positions. I hated and despised Elizabeth Warren for threatening women’s shelters and I don’t feel any different about you. You think anyone in that position has choices? I’m not cutting funding from women’s shelters regardless if they let or don’t let a tiny population of TIM end. I think anyone who takes resources away from the most vulnerable ( homeless women) because of their pet cause is trash in my book.

Edit: I think the Vancouver council was trash too.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m not going to deny them the one life line they have.

Well, I will. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. It's a shame you're not.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This might be an intellectual excercise to you but for many women it’s about life and death. We are not arguing about stupid definitions here. We are talking about resources. The ACLU doesn’t need our help but shelters do. We shouldn’t be denying women resources. So no I’m not going to “agree to disagree”.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You indicated that I'm "trash" for taking a different position from yours, and you said "I hated and despised Elizabeth Warren for threatening women’s shelters and I don’t feel any different about you" and you are making assumptions about my life experience and why I take the position I take.

Just because I advocate actions or positions that are the polar opposite to yours that you've barely scratched the surface of does not mean I am trash. It means we have very, very different views on a problem we both think is important.

If you think I'm this this easily put into a box then either a) agree to disagree and walk away and realize you may get more perspective later or b) dig in and ask why.

This isn't reddit: you can't just call me names, tone police me, and cancel me. https://saidit.net/static/PyramidDebate.jpg

I am taking option A: I'm walking away from you.