all 21 comments

[–]malleus_maleficarum 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Regarding Item 5. Physical letters to elected officials/media orgs/NGOs for those of us with long-standing donation patterns...

Has anyone else noticed how many women are still reluctant to actually cancel their Planned Parenthood, ACLU, women's shelter, etc., donations even though they disagree deeply with TIMs on the board & hormones being prescribed, cheating athletes, men in the shelter... The instinct to be non-confrontational and just let the donation lapse, or to keep it going and ask weakly and politely that the organization stop what they're doing (and reconsider pretty please) is allowing these groups to ignore us.

Cancel it! Cancel the damn donation! Swing the axe and then send a physical letter telling them why. Don't ask them to reconsider. Tell them concisely and bluntly why they lost your money and where it's going now. Many non-profits share donor lists, and as they ramp up for the elections in November they'll see donors shifting their support.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's a great one and a relatively low effort action, will add to the list. Generally those types of NGOs are a good candidate for emails, I will add. Thank you!

[–]malleus_maleficarum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"...and a relatively low effort action..."

🙄🙄🙄 I politely beg to differ. It's like pulling teeth from someone who WANTS to die of sepsis. 😕

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I don’t know. That’s like throwing baby out with the bath water. In the end those women’s shelters don’t want to lose support and they’ll do anything to save what little funding they do get. If that requires changing language so be it. ACLU on the other hand can suck it. Cancel away. They have consistently supported anti woman causes and they should not get a single cent from us.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

If that shelter has a TIM in it, it's unusable by me or any woman I care about. Shut the shelter down and end all funding, revoke the social workers' licenses, and repurpose the property. I consider the women who run it and let TIMs in to be traitors -- I don't want them in my home, my life, or my support network. People in positions of trust should feel the backlash when they betray that trust by compromising the values of their mission.

Edit. Also, thank you for proving my point. How hot will you let the bathwater get before you realize you're boiling?

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was assuming the original commenter meant to cancel donations to women-erasing organisations & move the money to ones that do support women, rather than just taking money away from causes. Giving the baby new bath water so to speak.

However, setting aside any personal feelings, I do strongly believe that if we want to be politically effective we need to be ruthless about that effectiveness. I just don't think that language in a public forum like "burn down the shelter" or "I will stand by while someone is raped" is ever going to help us, even if the anger behind it is deserved, even if the other side is worse, I just don't think it is ever helpful. Vent to a friend in life if you have to, but leaving statements like that up in gender critical forums is only going to give others an excuse to demonise us.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can certainly see where you are coming from and you raise valid points. But I've already had to ruthlessly cut out women in my life who are career social workers who would cheerfully make you and I share a room in a shelter with a TIM. That's real and immediate and I will not allow those women back into my life, my home, my support network, my trust, etc. They have prioritzed predatory men over other women. They can get help from those men instead of from me.

"I will stand by while someone is raped"

But that isn't what I said. Please be careful not to misrepresent those of us you disagree with.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for your reply, and I would like to make it clear I don't disagree with you about outrage against people who fail to protect womens' most critical safe spaces. It is completely outrageous, it is gaslighting, it is cowardly betrayal, I don't blame you at all for cutting those women out of your life. The issue I was raising is tactics & not giving the other side weapons to use against us. Sorry for putting (what I thought was) a paraphrase into quotes.

edited to add: When I first started peaking I went looking for the best arguments I could find in favour of the trans ideology. The TRAs would do their best to paint radfems as hateful witches, and it was really obvious to me that their attempts to find the worst things feminists had done/said were incredibly tame compared with the violence and harassment on their side. But when I read that comment of yours that I replied to I could really clearly imagine a TRA cutting and pasting it, quoting it out of context as "See, this is what they're like." It's not fair that we have to be so much more careful with what we say but it's just how it is because they have all the power.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that's a very good point and I'll amend my comment accordingly.

PS: This is an example of how to interact when you disagree with people.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Women who use those services aren’t in a position to choose. I’m not going to deny them the one life line they have. I’ve met women on those positions. I hated and despised Elizabeth Warren for threatening women’s shelters and I don’t feel any different about you. You think anyone in that position has choices? I’m not cutting funding from women’s shelters regardless if they let or don’t let a tiny population of TIM end. I think anyone who takes resources away from the most vulnerable ( homeless women) because of their pet cause is trash in my book.

Edit: I think the Vancouver council was trash too.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m not going to deny them the one life line they have.

Well, I will. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. It's a shame you're not.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This might be an intellectual excercise to you but for many women it’s about life and death. We are not arguing about stupid definitions here. We are talking about resources. The ACLU doesn’t need our help but shelters do. We shouldn’t be denying women resources. So no I’m not going to “agree to disagree”.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You indicated that I'm "trash" for taking a different position from yours, and you said "I hated and despised Elizabeth Warren for threatening women’s shelters and I don’t feel any different about you" and you are making assumptions about my life experience and why I take the position I take.

Just because I advocate actions or positions that are the polar opposite to yours that you've barely scratched the surface of does not mean I am trash. It means we have very, very different views on a problem we both think is important.

If you think I'm this this easily put into a box then either a) agree to disagree and walk away and realize you may get more perspective later or b) dig in and ask why.

This isn't reddit: you can't just call me names, tone police me, and cancel me. https://saidit.net/static/PyramidDebate.jpg

I am taking option A: I'm walking away from you.

[–]No_ 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can’t do much at the moment, especially as I can’t vote in the US (though reside there).

One way I’m doing something though is talking about it, to my friends, coworkers, anyone who will listen. I talk about how I want to stand waist deep in a lake catching fish and getting mud all over myself. I talk about how I like to wear guys clothes because it has pockets and how I’m angry at society and manufacturers still treating women as unworthy of having useful pockets. I talk about how I choose to go by a masculine-androgynous name because my hyper feminine name will cost me jobs. I don’t hide my reasons for my “male” actions behind flowery language, I say it as it is. I say I don’t plan on taking the COVID vaccine because it will not have been tested enough yet, a drug only 1 year old is not a drug I trust, because science and medicine has a male default. I don’t trust researchers to have taken women’s bodies into consideration with it. I’m pretending to be more masculine because of misogyny, and I don’t hide it. I actively talk about it.

The first step to fighting misogyny is to recognize it. You can’t fight it if you don’t even know what it is, how it comes to be and the littlest effects.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your comment! I definitely think that one on one conversations are a really valuable action that we can take and by far the best way of convincing someone when they know you in person. So it sounds like you definitely are doing something really important already.

I am curious for more feedback since I guess I would hope the article would help people like you and me who feel unsure about what/how much we can do. Have you ever sent any emails or letters? I think there are still organisations on the list that you could get in touch with even if you aren't a voter at the moment. Are there any actions in the article that you might consider doing in the future? What do you see as your barriers to getting more involved?

[–]SameOldBS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is really helpful. I'm going to bookmark it and see what I can do within the constraints I have to operate under. Thank you.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks so much! If you have the time, I would love more feedback about what you ended up doing and what you found helpful in the article and/or what could be more helpful.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think one thing we need with cancel culture is our own platforms and spaces so we can't be kicked out or deleted.

I'm going to try a bit of modding on here, see how that goes.

I also have a long term plan to set up a micropub where women only groups can meet. However if you work at a place with rentable meeting spaces, like a school, library or even a church, you can already make sure feminist and single sex groups know you are available.

[–]dancing_with_durga[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! That's a great one to add, volunteering as a moderator on a forum like this is very valuable. Maybe that counts in the medium effort category? I'm not sure how much time it takes because I've never done it.

And another good point, for anyone who has influence over a rentable meeting space they can make sure it is available for feminist groups. I will add those to the article.

And definitely agree, it seems like we have a massive need for tech skills to set up un-cancellable platforms because sadly it seems like all of Silicon Valley is against us :(