QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology

submitted by Chronicity from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

It just means, imo, that your relationship or perspective on gender and living in a sexed body is that you want to go against traditional or "natural" ideas. That could include gender nonconformity or medical treatment etc.

Trans means different things in different contexts. when I say I'm trans, I mean it in a way of, my sense of identity is only subversive in that I want to be female despite being amab. I mean it as "I couldn't survive without medically transitioning". And usually people understand what I mean by it.

To someone else it might just mean, wanting to tear down gendered constructs and stereotypes and identifying with different label.

Regardless, the label isn't meaningless, it signifies some level of intent or thought

[–]BiologyIsReal 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

If a word can mean whatever to anyone, then that word it's effectively meaningless. Words are supposed to facilitate communication.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

It has a number of closely related meanings. If someone doesn't get it you can just explain.

As long as there's understanding then it's totally fine.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

There is no understanding if one word is used to convey opposing information.

You say they are closely related ideas but they aren’t.

Imagine someone needs to buy shoes. They go to a store and say ‘hello I need shoes in x size please’ and they are handed a small pile of handkerchiefs.

Do they say ‘Thankyou for the shoes’ and pay, wrapping hankies on your feet and being surprised when they don’t keep out the mud?

Or would they perhaps say “sorry I said shoes. These are handkerchiefs”?

The clerk argues with them, telling the customer that these hemmed cotton squares and footwear are the same thing because the clerk defines each as “a thing that is worn”

Did the clerk who gave them hankies use a word that refers to one thing to refer to something else that’s vaguely related (an item one wears)? Was it effective communication?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It's not opposing information, transness implies some identification with an incongruence with gender roles or sexed attributes, that can take many forms. It's like going to the shoe store and when you ask for shoes they ask if you mean converse or vans. Both are shoes.

[–]Chronicity[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

By your own admission, you think transwomen can be anyone who calls themselves a transwoman—even if they are biologically female.

Another person might define transwomen as biological males who want to be female.

These two definitions cannot both be true. The only way you can consider them equally valid is if you don’t care about logic. It’s like saying you believe in God and the holy trinity while also professing to be an atheist.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

These two definitions cannot both be true

Why not? Words can mean different, even contradictory things. "Cleave" can mean either to split or to unite, for example

[–]Chronicity[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Call me when “cleave” denotes a group of people who insist on being a protected class in the eyes of the law.

If the group can’t even decide the basic parameters of membership beyond self-ID, then “trans” lacks sufficient meaning.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Trans people aren't a monolith, glad we both understand that. The group still exists without having an appointed "leader" lol. It's not for you to decide if trans has "sufficient meaning" or not; there's still plenty of trans ppl who have a right to transition care and protection from discrimination (everyone does)

[–]Chronicity[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I live in a democracy, so of course it’s up to me (and every other voting person) to decide if trans has sufficient meaning to merit status in the eyes of the law.

If all you want to do is call yourself trans without the expectation of special privileges or accommodations, knock yourself out.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It is opposing info. You’re saying trans means both an incongruence with one’s physical sex and their internal sense of gender, but also any preferences for gender expression, but also non conformity with gender.

Three seperate, distinct ideas. How are they similar to you? Why do you feel the similarities you see extend beyond your mind and into the material reality of others?

You’re saying woman means adult human males with gender ideas, adult human females.
Opposites.

You’re saying woman refers to any individuals personal concept of femininity.

That’s three things you are defining with a single word.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Three seperate, distinct ideas. How are they similar to you? Why do you feel the similarities you see extend beyond your mind and into the material reality of others?

Because they also call themselves trans and I feel a kinship with them.

You’re saying woman refers to any individuals personal concept of femininity.

Not femininity, there are masculine women too! Personal identity. Whether that is "backed up" by biology or not doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is how someone feels about themselves. Ofc, that says nothing about how someone is socially perceived, which is also meaningful, but yeah.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Why does your feeling of kinship with strangers entitle you to decide what the thoughts of anyone else are? Why does your kinship to males with gender identities mean that all English speakers must deny any word to refer to adult human females?

You’ve defined women as femininity previously despite denying it when that’s pointed out, which means there can be no masculine women in your world. She’d be a transman because she identifies with masculinity if she likes things her culture deems masculine🙄

Identity has never been defined or described in the context of gender except as a vague collection of modern era western sexed stereotypes of behaviour, preferences, and fashion choices.

Interestingly, identity when defined outside of the gender co text refers explicitly to one’s concept of self as formed by their lived experiences. Experiences, not imagined ideals to which one tries to make reality bend.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

that all English speakers must deny any word to refer to adult human females?

If you want to use women to refer only to adult human females then go ahead, I'm just not going to stop calling myself that.

She’d be a transman because she identifies with masculinity if she likes things her culture deems masculine

People are only trans if they say they are. Or in the case of those long past, we can only speculate on what they would have done in the world today, where medical transition is possible.

Interestingly, identity when defined outside of the gender co text refers explicitly to one’s concept of self as formed by their lived experiences

Do you not think being trans is a lived experience? It colors every corner of my life and is a large part of who I am. And yeah, bending reality to my will, at least in terms of the body I'm stuck living in, is really really cool

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you want to use women to refer only to adult human females then go ahead

Gee thanks, boss. It's so magnanimous and really big of you to deign to allow the adult human females of the world to use the word that describes us to a T.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Trans is a loved experience sure, but a male with a trans identity has zero lived experience with being a girl or a woman and identification as such is based purely on what a male thinks being a woman is.

Reality does not bend just because you do not challenge the idea that boys and men do not deserve love and becoming something else is the only way to be worthy of it.