QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology

submitted by Chronicity from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It's not opposing information, transness implies some identification with an incongruence with gender roles or sexed attributes, that can take many forms. It's like going to the shoe store and when you ask for shoes they ask if you mean converse or vans. Both are shoes.

[–]Chronicity[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

By your own admission, you think transwomen can be anyone who calls themselves a transwoman—even if they are biologically female.

Another person might define transwomen as biological males who want to be female.

These two definitions cannot both be true. The only way you can consider them equally valid is if you don’t care about logic. It’s like saying you believe in God and the holy trinity while also professing to be an atheist.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

These two definitions cannot both be true

Why not? Words can mean different, even contradictory things. "Cleave" can mean either to split or to unite, for example

[–]Chronicity[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Call me when “cleave” denotes a group of people who insist on being a protected class in the eyes of the law.

If the group can’t even decide the basic parameters of membership beyond self-ID, then “trans” lacks sufficient meaning.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Trans people aren't a monolith, glad we both understand that. The group still exists without having an appointed "leader" lol. It's not for you to decide if trans has "sufficient meaning" or not; there's still plenty of trans ppl who have a right to transition care and protection from discrimination (everyone does)

[–]Chronicity[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I live in a democracy, so of course it’s up to me (and every other voting person) to decide if trans has sufficient meaning to merit status in the eyes of the law.

If all you want to do is call yourself trans without the expectation of special privileges or accommodations, knock yourself out.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It is opposing info. You’re saying trans means both an incongruence with one’s physical sex and their internal sense of gender, but also any preferences for gender expression, but also non conformity with gender.

Three seperate, distinct ideas. How are they similar to you? Why do you feel the similarities you see extend beyond your mind and into the material reality of others?

You’re saying woman means adult human males with gender ideas, adult human females.
Opposites.

You’re saying woman refers to any individuals personal concept of femininity.

That’s three things you are defining with a single word.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Three seperate, distinct ideas. How are they similar to you? Why do you feel the similarities you see extend beyond your mind and into the material reality of others?

Because they also call themselves trans and I feel a kinship with them.

You’re saying woman refers to any individuals personal concept of femininity.

Not femininity, there are masculine women too! Personal identity. Whether that is "backed up" by biology or not doesn't matter to me, what matters to me is how someone feels about themselves. Ofc, that says nothing about how someone is socially perceived, which is also meaningful, but yeah.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Why does your feeling of kinship with strangers entitle you to decide what the thoughts of anyone else are? Why does your kinship to males with gender identities mean that all English speakers must deny any word to refer to adult human females?

You’ve defined women as femininity previously despite denying it when that’s pointed out, which means there can be no masculine women in your world. She’d be a transman because she identifies with masculinity if she likes things her culture deems masculine🙄

Identity has never been defined or described in the context of gender except as a vague collection of modern era western sexed stereotypes of behaviour, preferences, and fashion choices.

Interestingly, identity when defined outside of the gender co text refers explicitly to one’s concept of self as formed by their lived experiences. Experiences, not imagined ideals to which one tries to make reality bend.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

that all English speakers must deny any word to refer to adult human females?

If you want to use women to refer only to adult human females then go ahead, I'm just not going to stop calling myself that.

She’d be a transman because she identifies with masculinity if she likes things her culture deems masculine

People are only trans if they say they are. Or in the case of those long past, we can only speculate on what they would have done in the world today, where medical transition is possible.

Interestingly, identity when defined outside of the gender co text refers explicitly to one’s concept of self as formed by their lived experiences

Do you not think being trans is a lived experience? It colors every corner of my life and is a large part of who I am. And yeah, bending reality to my will, at least in terms of the body I'm stuck living in, is really really cool

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you want to use women to refer only to adult human females then go ahead

Gee thanks, boss. It's so magnanimous and really big of you to deign to allow the adult human females of the world to use the word that describes us to a T.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? I'm not the boss of anyone, I'm just saying that that's always something you could do if you wanted. I don't need permission to be a woman and neither does anyone else.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Trans is a loved experience sure, but a male with a trans identity has zero lived experience with being a girl or a woman and identification as such is based purely on what a male thinks being a woman is.

Reality does not bend just because you do not challenge the idea that boys and men do not deserve love and becoming something else is the only way to be worthy of it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My lived experience is as someone who people believe is a woman. How are you sure every woman who isn't trans has the same exact set of experiences? Or, if you acknowledge that no two people have the same experiences, which of those are "essential" to womanhood? I'm not making assumptions about what being a woman is, there a million right ways to be a woman because there are millions of women. I'm just a woman in my own way.

Reality does not bend

It does and it's actually really really cool. It's actually amazing to me that I could take hormones and stop myself from becoming a man, I wish it were more complete but it's way better than nothing. Before, my relationships always ended because I was extremely uncomfortable with my body and turned down anything physical, because I didn't see myself as deserving any love. Transitioning has slowly helped me change and realize that now, I might be okay to receive a little bit of love.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Your discomfort with reality and your body are not part of any female experience.

No woman has ever based their womanhood on feeling like their maleness makes them subhuman.

No woman experiences distress over having a penis and testicles, no woman bases their womanhood on their ability to maintain relationships, or discomfort about their sex.

A woman does not typically define her womanhood on a belief that her sex is inherently lesser or on efforts to perform what she perceives a woman’s role to be in the world.

Womanhood is not simply being called mam by a till clerk.

The only essential thing to womanhood is being an adult human female. This is something that cannot be induced in a male. I’m sorry that that hurts you but again, I truly believe that you would understand this if you allowed yourself to question the narrative that “males don’t deserve love but I want to be loved”

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not a narrative it's the truth. I'm sorry but I can't go on like this. Thank you for not being too cruel

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, it’s not objectively true that males deserve death and do not deserve love. My toddler nephews don’t deserve murder just because you hate yourself.

My grandfather was not an awful abusive man just because you refuse to assess your own prejudices. Frankly it’s disgusting to say any group deserves to be killed, and it’s disgusting to claim that whilst simultaneously telling us that we claim every TW ever is a rapist. Why do your feelings entitle you to say terrible things about an entire demographic but we are bigoted for noticing that come parts of a demographic commit crime?

Have you ever tried thinking about the feelings of others and not your own?