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[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I and many others on the GC side have said we are for third spaces, such as separate prison wings for TW in the male estate or separate facilities entirely, and for creating additional options to supplement the single-sex restrooms, change rooms, shelters, rape refuges, hospital wards, etc that already exist. But you say nope, that's not good enough - you insist males who identify as trans must be allowed into all/any previously-female spaces. That's the only option you find acceptable.

Your "solution" to the problem of male-on-male violence is to expose all girls and women to more male violence, voyeurism, harassment, menacing and abuse than we already face - and to rob us of any refuge from males ever - by making previously female-only spaces mixed sex. You seem well aware that this won't actually make the males you supposedly care about any safer, nor will it provide them with the "gender affirmation" so many seek. But that seems fine by you because the "solution" you propose would cause girls and women enormous harm - and harm to the members of the sex say you wish were and you claim to "identify as" seems to be the ultimate aim of trans activists.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I’ve said repeatedly I prefer third spaces so please don’t play that game. I don’t actually like making people uncomfortable.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I’ve said repeatedly I prefer third spaces so please don’t play that game.

Within moments of writing that, you also wrote this:

Third spaces or women’s spaces are the only way that we can be safe. And we can’t engineer third spaces. That change can’t come from us.

Which means that as much as you give lip service to preferring third spaces, you say they are not really a possibility because for some reason you and other TW are incapable of making third spaces happen. And that, in turn, means the only option you see as feasible is for males to use the spaces meant for girls and women that women fought hard for and in many cases actually built.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

They’re not a possibility that we can engineer. They can’t come from us. Not that they can’t exist.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Again, why can't they come from you? Why so passive and lazy? Could it be that you actually prefer to sit around complaining about how rough you supposedly have it and blaming women for all your problems than getting off your arses and making positive change in the world?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

Because we are a tiny, largely hated, portion of the population that is definitionally not necessary to society. We don’t have power for change.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

How did you all end up with all the changes forced on the rest of us so far?

How did you all end up with people getting fired for saying sex is real? With feminine hygiene products not being referred to as feminine hygiene (and all the other language bullshit)? How did you all get access to female sports and other specifically female things? How did you get the right to lie on legal documents?

I just feel like your community got an awful lot of change in other areas… odd that the thing you insist you can’t get involves women being able to have their own spaces again…

Sorry. Didn’t mean to interrupt.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Because gays and lesbians pushed for it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

And why would gays and lesbians not push for you to have third spaces if you wanted?

They don’t need any of the other stuff I listed- that’s all for your community. Why would they leave you hanging with this one thing?

There’s your community that’s powerful enough to help you get the change you really want right there.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You all are actively campaigning for them to turn their backs on us. Drop the t and all that. Not to mention that there’s not even consensus among us because of the fact that it could be used as justification to alienate us if we were separated as non women. Im for it but it’s not something all trans people want.