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[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

Women cannot solve male on male violence. If you didn't notice, men don't listen when women speak up about male on female violence. I don't know why you think men would act different if women speaked up against male on male violence. We're also not the ones telling men to abuse you.

Also, it's absurd males who identify as trans males expect us to solve all your problems with male violence when you don't do anything about violence against women. In fact many of said males commit violence against women, advocate for policies that will hurt women or pretend this doesn't happen.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

Women cannot solve male on male violence. If you didn't notice, men don't listen when women speak up about male on female violence. I don't know why you think men would act different if women speaked up against male on male violence.

You have a better chance than we do.

And you aren’t saying “hurt them” but you are saying to treat us like men and lock us up with men. That’s not much of a distinction.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

Women are not responsible for male-on-male violence. So stop blaming us, and stop telling me that sorting out all the male-on-male violence in the world is women's job. And stop telling us that unless women promise to solve the problem of male-on-male violence for you, girls and women as a class must be punished for it by giving up our own safety, dignity and privacy by opening up all our spaces to predatory males.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

Then stop pushing for policies that get violence done to us?

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Show me where I have ever pushed "for policies that get violence done to" anyone.

Again, stop blaming women for male violence. Males who are violent are not reading and listening to feminists like me. Your constant blaming of women for what men do is pure misogyny.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

You are actively pushing for us to be treated like men in all respect. The direct result of that is us being stuck with men and subjected to their violence. It’s a direct causal link. Just because it isn’t your fist doesn’t mean you aren’t cheering on the cause of it landing.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

The irony is completely lost on you...

And stop with the baseless acussations. This is my last warning.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (43 children)

There’s nothing baseless about this. “You should go to male prisons and have to use male facilities” if enacted as a policy would lead to trans women being harmed. You can’t possibly deny that.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I and many others on the GC side have said we are for third spaces, such as separate prison wings for TW in the male estate or separate facilities entirely, and for creating additional options to supplement the single-sex restrooms, change rooms, shelters, rape refuges, hospital wards, etc that already exist. But you say nope, that's not good enough - you insist males who identify as trans must be allowed into all/any previously-female spaces. That's the only option you find acceptable.

Your "solution" to the problem of male-on-male violence is to expose all girls and women to more male violence, voyeurism, harassment, menacing and abuse than we already face - and to rob us of any refuge from males ever - by making previously female-only spaces mixed sex. You seem well aware that this won't actually make the males you supposedly care about any safer, nor will it provide them with the "gender affirmation" so many seek. But that seems fine by you because the "solution" you propose would cause girls and women enormous harm - and harm to the members of the sex say you wish were and you claim to "identify as" seems to be the ultimate aim of trans activists.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I’ve said repeatedly I prefer third spaces so please don’t play that game. I don’t actually like making people uncomfortable.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Even when we say that conditions in male prisons and other male spaces should be improved so that ALL males are safe You have a problem with being included in all males. Unless we sacrifice our spaces for you you won’t be satisfied.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

It’s impossible for trans women to be safe in men’s spaces. They can’t be improved to make trans women safe. It can’t be done.

Third spaces or women’s spaces are the only way that we can be safe. And we can’t engineer third spaces. That change can’t come from us.