Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

And most trans women are attracted to men.

That's just a bald-faced lie, which is low even for no-evidence ever you. At least 75% of "trans women" are heterosexual males. This has always been the case and is even more so nowadays compared to the 60s, 70s and 80s because of the successes of the gay rights movement.

Prominent "trans women" who are heterosexual males, all of them previously married to women and fathers, include Jan Morris, Renee Richards, Caitlyn Jenner, Martine Rothblatt, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Jennifer Pritzker, Rachel Levine, Marci Bowers, Zoe Tur, and Dana Rivers, the one who killed two lesbians and their son in Berkeley CA a few years back. Leading lights of Genderland today include such heterosexual males as literary bigwigs Grace Lavery and Andrea Long Chu.

Being gay doesn’t predispose you to violence.

No, of course it doesn't. I never said it did. But at the same time, being gay doesn't remove males from the male sex class which has male patterns of violence, criminality and sex offending. Just as claiming a trans identity doesn't make males any less prone to violence and criminality either.

Leaving aside the utter lack of proof of violent crime rates among trans women that’s a wild swing.

I provided you with evidence from the UK Ministry of Justice that shows 58% of the "trans women" in prison in England and Wales in 2019 had at least one conviction for a criminal sex offense. How is that "utter lack of proof of violent crime rates" amongst this group?

In the US, for example, TW have much higher rates of incarceration compared to other males of their same race, age, place of origin and residence, level of education, employment history, etc. For example, depending on which source you go by, the proportion of black TW in the US who already have served a sentenc in jail or prison due to ranges from a low of 49% to nearly 65%. Those are much higher rates of being sentenced to incarceration than black males across the board. At the time when black males' incarceration rates were the highest in the US (at the turn of the 21st century), 33% of them could expect to be sentenced to time in jail or prison in the course of their lives. Now the lifetime incarceration rate for black males has dropped considerably, to under 20%.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The only large scale survey I ever saw had trans women as approximately 33 percent straight, 33 percent bi, and 33 percent gay. That means the majority are attracted to men.

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Is sexual orientation defined by the authors as based on sex or "gender identity"? Because if it is the latter, as it's likely, then that survey is saying most are sexually attracted to women...

Edit: also are the three numbers exactly 33%, really...?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

And also that most are attracted to men. As I said.

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It would be 50:50 supposing you're not making those numbers up, which I'm sceptical...

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No it wouldn’t. It would be 66 percent attracted to men and 66 percent attracted to women. Bi people would apply to both.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Right, so even going by your dodgy numbers, the majority of TW are sexually attracted to women. Which means they pose a sexual risk to women, whom they can still easily overpower due to their relatively greater strength, speed and size.

BTW, where are your figures from? And where do they apply? To which countries, I mean.

I trust the stats that US and Canadian sexologists like J Michael Bailey and Ray Blanchard have provided, which are that in countries like the US, UK and Canada, 75% of TW are heterosexual males, and 25% are gay males. Those figures are from the 1990s, though, so more nowadays might be bi.

Until the trans movement revived homophobia in a big way in the last few years, the percentage of gay males adopting a trans identity, particularly in adolescence or adulthood, was on the decline in countries like the US, UK and Canada because life had gotten much easier for out gay males in those places - and because same-sex marriage and adoption are now legal, and increasing numbers of same-sex male couples feel they have the option to become fathers and raise children.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It’s been a few years but it was a us centric interest survey.

I wouldn’t trust anything from Blanchard. His most famous research is so wildly specious and ignorant it’s impossible to even address. He doesn’t believe bisexual trans people can exist. He just says we are heterosexual and confused. “Pseudo bisexual”

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s been a few years but it was a us centric interest survey.

Oh one of those infamous "surveys" filled out anonymously online with no verification of who the respondents really are and no way to tell how many, if any, are being truthful. Gotcha.

He doesn’t believe bisexual trans people can exist. He just says we are heterosexual and confused. “Pseudo bisexual”

I don't think that Blanchard says that bisexual trans people can't exist. He said that the male patients who presented at the clinic he worked at for help with "gender identity" issues and transition tended to fit two distinct patterns: HSTS or het AGP. That's very different to saying "bi trans people can not exist." Also, why would a sexologist say bi people of any kind don't exist? Sexologists twigged to bisexuality a long time ago. Plus, sexologists have devised all sorts of nifty phyisical tests to ascertain and measure sexual arousal, so to them determining whether a person is gay, het or bi - and if bi, just how bi - is not a big deal.

Also, my understanding is that the label "pseudo bisexual" applies only to persons, mostly males, who were monosexual all their lives but claim to have switched sexual orientation after they had "transition" related treatment, usually just hormones but sometimes genital surgeries too.

Moreover, I don't think the "pseudo bisexual" label is one that Blanchard coined, nor am I aware of it through any of his work. I've learned about it from other people's research in the field.

I'm not clear on what your sexual orientation is, nor is it any of my business, nor do I know where you live, but I think that as a mostly heterosexual woman who's lived most of my life in NYC and artsy environs, I might have a better sense of how prevalent heterosexuality is amongst males who ID as TW. I'm a member of their target sex, after all, and you're not. I also know a number of women who've been married to or involved with guys who now say they are TW, and I know a lot of lesbians whose lives and social circles have been invaded by TW claiming to be lesbians going back to the 1970s.

Plus, several het guys in my own social circle now claim to be TW. The first one was the dad of a schoolmate of mine who "became a woman" in 1974. But several straight males in my own peer group I've known over the decades now say they are TW too. One is a guy I went to college with who viciously attacked and attempted to rape me my "freshman" year. He sent me a letter circa 2010 telling me that he'd finally "come out as a woman," and in so doing had realized that the reason he beat me up and tried to rape me was his "dysphoria" that caused him to be consumed by jealous rage towards me because I got to "experience and enjoy the girlhood" that he never had and I benefitted from "cis girl privilege and pretty girl privilege" whereas he was "forced to live in the body of a boy." Previously, he'd blamed his behavior on the fact that he'd gone to an all-boys prep school... Whatever... it's all a bunch of hooey. Self-justifying malarkey. But the point is: there are tons of heterosexual guys out there who are TW nowadays.

[–]nausicaa 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This study came out in 2021 and looks at the sexuality of trans people in several countries in Europe.

For trans women:

-21% were attracted to men only

-51% were attracted to both men and women

-20% were attracted to women only

-0.6% were attracted to trans people only

-5% responded "not applicable"

For trans men:

-7% were attracted to men only

-29% were attracted to both men and women

-55% were attracted to women only

-0.9% were attracted to trans people only

-4% responded "not applicable"