Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Every other facet of identity I can think of is always based on something that people experience or exist as in some way. If it’s not something you can exist as, it’s a "subculture" or community with people who dress/look/like etc similarly. If you’d have said having dysphoria was a part of your identity I’d get that, but I don’t get how identifying as your understanding of the gender/sex opposite your own is in any way similar to other facets of identity. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, it just seems like the concept of gender identity runs counter to every other sense of identity I can think of.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

To me it’s always been intrinsic to dysphoria, but it seems there’s a push now for non dysphoric trans people as a thing. I don’t get it but I don’t want to be dismissive.

Even without dysphoria I suppose society teaches you at an early age what you should like. If you like what one gender is supposed to like and are constantly bombarded in formative development with that message isn’t it conceivable that you would develop a core facet of identity based on that environment?

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

We all receive societal messagges about how we should be. We all get questioned when/if don't fit with was has been deemed acceptable for our sex. This is not a unique experience for people who identify as trans because no one is 100% masculine or feminine. Not to mention there are many contradictions in what is considered feminine or masculine. For instance, men are said to be the rational sex (yeah, right...) and the same time women are told not to dress a certain way because men are unable to control their sexual impulses.

Anyway, don't you understand how offensive is it that you think women (the adult human females, you know) are perfectly comfortable and happy with the way we are treated by society and the way we are told we should be?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Anyway, don't you understand how offensive is it that you think women (the adult human females, you know) are perfectly comfortable and happy with the way we are treated by society and the way we are told we should be?

I never said you were. I said dysphoric tendency plus social messaging that you are wrong for liking the things you like as your sex equals core identity change and indullible trans identity. I didn’t say anything about anyone else.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You say the word woman feels right for you because your perceived lack of "masculinity", how is that not reducing women to stereotypes? Lots of women feel insecure for not living up to social expectations. Lots of women have a complicated relation with their body because of things like beauty standards, sexual objectifaction or sexual harrasment, etcetera. By reducing women to stereotypes and denyng how sex does matter your denying those facts. But if you don't think so, then I challenge you to define what a woman is. Let's see if you can do better than saying we are "non men" or "anyone who identify as such".

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

It feels right because it feels right. Like how your name sounds right. It just doesn’t produce an aversion. Not because I am effeminate. Man, by contrast, produces a visceral negative reaction.

I’ve given a list based definition before and you all said it wasn’t sufficient so I’m not going to give you one. Woman feels right, man feels disgusting. It’s really not more complicated than that for me at this point. Leave the analysis to people smarter than me.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Does it genuinely not matter to you that many women have said time and time again that the way you use the word "woman" is harmful and offensive to us? Do the people who this word naturally applies to not matter at all?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The word doesn’t naturally apply to anyone. But frankly I’m too tired for the language discussion at this point. To be put simply I don’t think calling myself a woman harms women. Because I am one.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So… no. It doesn’t bother you that you offend and cause problems for women lol

It naturally applies to adult human females. You are not a woman. All the evidence in the world indicates that you aren’t and there is nothing to indicate that you are. Every time you call yourself a woman it’s a slap in the face to actual women. We can end it here.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Nice to know you think that we are so much below you that using the same word is a slap in the face.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I did not asked you how you personally feel about the words. I asked for a definition. If you want your identity be protected by law, then you should give a more concrete and verifiable definition that "it feels right". How do you justify that you and others like you be grouped together with women? What we do in have in common?