QT, if gender is innate to identity

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]BiologyIsReal 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

But in what do they based their "gender identity" if not "gender expression"? So, how can then "gender identity" be innate?

[–]strictly 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (16 children)

But in what do they based their "gender identity" if not "gender expression"? So, how can then "gender identity" be innate?

I think some trans people who are gender non-conforming relative biological sex base their gender identity partly on gender expression but I think many base it on the body they want to have, and then they invent a narrative where they more or less imagine all people as needing to inhabit a certain body type, that way they can say they are just like the opposite sex for wanting to inhabit that body (by assigning the opposite sex the same desire they themselves have).

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (15 children)

I find this too evasive. I don't think it describes the patterns.

Most people are gender conforming. They are not indifferent to gender expression in themselves or others.

I think the trans argument that gender expression is only "personality" doesn't play out.

There is a pattern of trans people being far more likely to identify as gay relative to their gender identity and far more likely to identify as gnc relative to their gender identity than the average population.

I don't think it's unrelated.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (14 children)

There are also far more of us who you would identify as gay relative to birth sex. I don’t have a link handy but one relatively large scale survey had about 1/3 of us identifying as gay, bi, and straight.

That puts us by your reckoning as 30 percent homosexual and 30 percent by which is wildly above average.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (13 children)

So there is a pattern between trans identities and sexual orientation that does not correlate with the background population?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

I believe so. We are substantially more likely to be bi or homosexual (by your reckoning) than either sex’s norm.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

And more likely to be gnc relative to gender identity.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

That I can’t speak to.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I feel like that’s just so easily observable from being around trans people.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Most of the trans people I’ve been around were in support groups so it’s pretty selective. Like you may be right but I don’t think I can say definitively .

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

What's your reasoning of how that comes about?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Hard to separate that from the social component though

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

My thinking is the patterns show at least two probably three innate traits going on, in relation to biological sex.

Orientation, expression, identity.

If they were not innate they would not be so consistent.

If they were directly related they would be more one to one.

If they were not indirectly related there would be no connecting pattern at all.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Also between being intersex, trans, and lgb* sexual orientations.

*there are more but the study(s) was frames in those terms I believe.