QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

submitted by wokuspokus from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (24 children)

In America it is legal to discriminate against trans people in housing. It is also legal to refuse to give a trans person even non-trans related medical care.

Most places do not have third facilities meaning that it is essentially impossible to safely spend an extended period most places without using gender appropriate facilities for trans women as we are absolutely unsafe in men’s facilities. The only time I’ve been physically attacked since transition personally was in a men’s room.

Due to this facility issue in fact we are prevented to doing things like sports. Both because there are no safe facilities and because trans woman can’t Physically compete with men. But that is less a rights issue and more a practical concern even though it has health implications.

[–]wokuspokus[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

That’s awful and raises an interesting point. WHY is Biden (who appears to be interested in trans rights) not doing anything about housing and medical care (genuine human rights issues) but doing everything he can to erase women’s rights in your name?

I’m really sorry about what happened to you. My honest opinion is a third space should be present where practical. It is the only solution. The issue with going with gender identity is with toilets self ID is basically used. This means women can’t complain about a man (not transwoman, a literal creepy man) in their facilities, as he can claim to be a transwoman. There is evidence to show neutral toilets are more dangerous for women so they cannot come at the expense of a woman’s only space.

As for sport, women cannot compete with transwomen. A third facility for changing should be provided, but transwomen (retaining advantages due to male puberty, and having much higher T levels than women) and transmen (who, in terms of sports, are equivalent to women doping T) need to compete with men. Women’s sport is not a fall back for transwomen (who, in terms of sports, are effectively men taking drugs to make themselves a little bit weaker). I know a lot of transpeople due to being a student in LGBT+ society. The MtFs are much stronger than any woman I know, and most of these transwomen are not sporty (I do lots of strength work, and they could obliterate me) and the transmen get really strong, really quick. There are mixed sports, which right now are great for transgender people and I really think they should be encouraged to play these. Recreational clubs often mix. Racquet sports (mixed doubles, and tend to mix recreationally) and running (smallest gap between men and women, and often very casual) clubs are great examples.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (22 children)

I think Biden wants to help trans people genuinely but doesn’t actually understand the issues we face personally.

My preference is single occupancy neutral spaces since dedicated trans facilities would necessarily out those using them and stealth is a trans woman’s best protection from persecution.

Trans women can’t compete With men and given that athletes are specifically the hyper masculine and insecure men most likely to hurt us, shouldn’t even if they could. I’m not convinced we have no edge over natal women so I don’t advocate for that either. No trans women in sports is the best solution I’ve found even though I quite value sport personally. I power lift for example but don’t compete, even though my numbers wouldn’t be particularly impressive among natal women.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Why can’t transwomen compete with men?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (18 children)

We are hopelessly outclassed with proper testosterone suppression. It’s rendered a noncontest. In addition the likelihood of targeted injury isn’t acceptable.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

So you could but you think they wouldn’t stand a chance.

But there’s nothing in place that actually prevents transwomen from competing against other males? No laws or restrictions, just… not wanting to lose (and wanting the validation of the women’s sports)?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (15 children)

No we can’t compete. We could attempt but it wouldn’t be competition. High school teams don’t compete with pro tams. It’s the same. There is no contest.

But there’s nothing in place that actually prevents transwomen from competing against other males?

The integrity of sport and hostility of the masculine men. Safety. Many things. But there is usually no rule. Sometimes there is for instance the USAPL banned trans women from all competition not just against natal women.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

So yes, technically speaking, you could in fact compete, you just don’t think you stand a chance at winning and are worried about a few hypotheticals. (With the exception of the USAPL)

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun -  (11 children)

Part of competition involves contest. It’s not sport for a trans woman to get destroyed by a cis dude. It’s Bullying with a ball. It isn’t sport.

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And what about women competing with transwomen? Its no fun for them either. Bullying with a ball basically sums up women competing with transwomen.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It’s not sport for a trans woman to get destroyed by a cis dude. It’s Bullying with a ball. It isn’t sport.

But according to you it's perfectly fine for males who identify as trans to beat the pants off female athletes. Gotcha. This is just the same old, same old male supremacy in a new guise.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So yes, TW can compete against other males they just don’t want to becuse they think they’ll lose. We can keep going back and forth but this is the answer to my question lol

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Depends on "transness" of that transgender person and how deep self-ID has gotten. As was noted previously - Hubbard would still be top 15%, which is above 85% of the male competitors...

In Canada, for example, non-binary male transgender can compete in both male and female team at same time, without any hormones, surgeries or anything. Just your regular manly male bloke: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4plrHvWYAAWcEl?format=jpg&name=medium

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I’m talking about hormone controlled trans women. They can’t compete. I’m not saying we should compete against natal women, I’m saying we can’t compete against men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is BS.

[–]wokuspokus[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think we’re pretty much in agreement tbh. I hope the housing/healthcare situation gets sorted out for you.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks.