Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I had no issue with it at first. I have no issue with the idea that people are not attracted to trans people. But the sub became transphobic, like statements like trans women aren't women and a bunch of other anti-trans statements. I think the very reason they emphasized TWAW and TWAM is to avoid getting banned, but transphobia and other forms of bigotry is not welcome on Reddit. Refusing to date trans people is not bigotry. Saying trans women aren't women and trans men aren't men is bigotry.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Were you on the sub? I didn't see transphobia. By that I mean hatred of trans people. The mods were very careful trying to keep that stuff out. But it wouldn't have mattered. Reddit was never going to let it stand because it's not the narrative they agree with. The old debate sub was strictly moderated, and we still got the boot, despite two trans women moderators and tons of trans members.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Were you on the sub? I didn't see transphobia. By that I mean hatred of trans people.

You don't have to outright say you hate trans people for your statements to be transphobic. Statements like "trans women aren't women" or "no gay man will date trans men" counts as transphobia. There were plenty of statements like that and r/GenderCritical users resurfacing with the same mentality.

The old debate sub was strictly moderated, and we still got the boot, despite two trans women moderators and tons of trans members.

I wouldn't say the old debate sub was strictly moderated. Quite the opposite. Plus, Reddits system allowed downvoting, which resulted in GC disproportionally downvoting QT posts. A GC comment on that sub always got an average of 30 upvotes, even if the arguments weren't well constructed or the user was unreasonably hostile. A QT poster always got an average of 7 downvotes no matter how well constructed their comment was.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Maybe we have different definitions of transphobia. I don't think not believing that a trans woman is the same as a natal woman counts. Hatred, disgust, wishing for discriminatory laws, wanting to harm trans people, calling them slurs, all of those would qualify in my book.

The old sub was a little ban happy at times, but I feel like the mods did their best. It wasn't perfect, but that wasn't why it was banned. It was banned because Reddit will not allow discussion of these topics. I agree 100% about the downvoting problem, by the way. It was hugely disappointing to see some of our QT posters repeatedly get downvoted to oblivion. I'm happy Saidit does not have that option.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am OK with that sub being banned as I think this is a better place to host GCdebatesQT. Reddit and Saidit each have their advantages and disadvantages. On Reddit, there is anonymous downvoting and subs can't turn it off. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. But naturally on a sub like this people will downvote opinions they disagree with. Anyone can downvote, but this for some reason always resulted in GC disproportionately downvoting QT posts. No one admitted to doing, saying it's the lurkers doing it, but on Ovarit, a user admitted to downvoting on the former sub. Also on that sub some users were rather hostile and weren't banned. I don't want to name names.

Saidit is anti-Semitic. I go to the front page and see posts about Jews like how Jews are fascists taking over the world. I'm only here for GCdebatesQT. Reddit and most front-page subs themselves don't allow this kind of hate. But on here there is no ability do downvote, Saidit requires mods to follow rules. Mods can't remove comments that are in good faith and on-topic, and mods can only remove opposing opinions if the rules about it are clearly stated in the sidebar But the Reddit sub was more active, and hopefully this sub can grow and become more active.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm still sad and upset about the old sub being banned. I'm glad we have Saidit as a replacement, but this site is creepy as fuck if you wander outside of the few gender-focused subs. I don't like that there are Nazis roaming around. Then again, there are pedophiles all over Reddit who aren't dealt with, so maybe both sites are equally shitty. I don't know. I'm glad at least we have some form of free speech here.

I do think it's much better that there's no downvoting option, and yeah, I agree. I'm sure regulars were downvoting on the old sub even though they claimed they didn't. And there were some hostile people who weren't banned or even really warned. This does seem to be a friendlier space, at least so far. We just need more QT folks. Seriously, invite your friends. We need them.