QT: Who is trans “inclusive” language really for?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What observable evidence is there? Not self reported feelings, actual biological processes. Gender is a social construct itself. Identity is a psychological construct, not an observable reality. It is all ideas and theory and a whole lot of sexism.

The terms are sexed. Applying gender rhetoric and sexism to them is a choice. Woman means adult human female, not person who likes things assigned to female people by a patriarchal society.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

What observable evidence is there? Not self reported feelings, actual biological processes. Gender is a social construct itself. Identity is a psychological construct, not an observable reality. It is all ideas and theory and a whole lot of sexism.

Gender Identity is very much not a social construct. If it were, conversion therapy to turn transgender people cisgender would work, which it very much doesn't ( https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-conversion-therapy-associated-severe-psychological-distress-n1052416 )

In terms of observable criteria, there is the clear distress felt by gender dysphoric transgender people at their physical sexed anatomy, that is lessend when the physical sexed anatomy is changed from the one of the birth sex to the one of the gender the person identifies as. Gender dysphoria is a neurological medical issue that, similar to clinical depression, is currently diagnosed based on psychological means but is treated via medical ones (antidepressiva for clinical depression, hormone therapy for gender dysphoria)

The terms are sexed. Applying gender rhetoric and sexism to them is a choice.

no, they aren't. Of how many people you call "she" or "him", "woman" or "man" every day do you know with certainty which gonads they have?

not person who likes things assigned to female people by a patriarchal society.

really? Having Breasts, feminine facial features, lack of facial hair (usually), high levels of estrogen and a vagina were assigned to female people by a patriarchal society?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How do you make the leap to conversion therapy not working being the same thing as observable biological processes? How does that make it not a social construct? Gender is a social construct so how is an identity based on it biologically evident?

how many do I correctly know the gonads.

98%or so. Intersex disorders are quite rare. The existence of people with disorders of sexual development is not a reason to stop using sexed terms for the vast majority of people. Male and female are clear and discrete categories. Disorders of sexual development are discrete categories of males and females with specific disorders. Muddying up everything observed about sexual development helps nothing and nobody.

Having Breasts, feminine facial features, lack of facial hair (usually), high levels of estrogen and a vagina were assigned to female people by a patriarchal society?

No those are sexed features. Sex is not defined by comfort or enjoyment of ones sexed features. Discomfort or distress with ones sex and sexed features does not change ones sex. It is not evidence of a gender identity. It is not a logical reason to erase sexed terms.

The erasure of sexed terms is the choice to ignore sex based oppression, or to make the wild claim that infanticide of female infants, forced births, child marriages, and all other forms of sexed oppression faced by female people is actually due to a female gender identity.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

99.982% to be precise. Total amount of intersex people is around 0.16-0.2% of population and amount of intersex people with ambigious genitals or missmatched chromosomes are just 0.018%. If taking into account only genitals, then around 0.009-0.01%. So in 99.991% cases genitals = sex. And in most of cases just few extra tests needed to determine. It is around 3000-30000 or less people with DSD per country (depending on population of it). There much more transgender people than us.

Almost none of intersex people are trans (same percent as in general population), so I don't understand why we even being mentioned. We are not connected to this issue in any way and our problems are completely different.

We do not want to be called third sex, other or "less female/male". We are the same as everyone else, just with congenital problems with sexual development - like people with 6 fingers, or people with congenital heart disorders, and so on. We are neither lesser, nor "other". Othering hurt us and leads to IGM and mistreatment.