all 14 comments

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Not a QT.

Historically there were 1 transman for 90-100 transwomen. Nowadays there slightly more tnrasmen than transwomen. Most transwomen nowadays are not even trying to transition or present themselves as females, just either abusing system or are fetishists. That is really hurting "actual" transsexual transgender people, who mostly want to just live as the opposite sex, quietly and without demanding anything from anyone.

Tavistock statistic showed that around third of all girls transitioned are lesbians, and around another third are just GNC or tomboy girls. It was always really hard to grow up like that, all the attention, changing body, pain of growing breasts, first menstruations which are still very stigmatized, everyone hating you being not "girly" enough, huge lesbophobia before and even greater lesbophobia now. And everyone is saying to tomboys or butch lesbians "are you a man?", all the time misgendering them with saying "he", all the sexism in media and shaming everywhere around, etc.

And as a kid and even as young teen, up to 22-25 years old, you do not realize what changes on your body and your future life will do all those surgeries, hormones and drugs, so it is really easy to fall down for "all sexism is against women, breasts growing only for women, menstruation is only hated from women, so I will not be a woman anymore, it will save me from all this distress put on me by society". Every decade those girls were going against society or with society - will it be punk girls, witches, pinkies, goths, emo, and now trans and enbies. And after transition everyone is praising them, they are no longer hated, no longer under attacks from others, no longer underprivileged, no longer "boring lesbian", now "he" is not misgendering anymore, and so on. It is always clearly seen that most such transmen are always having "he / they" pronouns - anything, just not the woman. Even Ellen/Elliot Page did the same, after few interviews on how hard it is to be a woman in Hollywood that is coming to "too old" age of 35, and that because she is lesbian, a lot of roles are not even proposed to her (this is so weird rule, that only X can play X, while straight people can play anything).

This situation only shows how miserably sexist and lesbophobic today's society is, how it is hateful towards gender nonconforming women.

I lived through all that, hating myself for being woman, for being lesbian, asking why everything is so unfair. When I was searching my first job as an engineer - my resume were instantly dismissed, until I started presenting with male name, and then same companies started checking them and even asking for meetings to show what I know. It was so unfair, I was so hating myself for being born as a woman at those moments. I even was presenting myself as a boy for some time, when lesbophobia was the strongest and I was beaten up for being lesbian and fired from job. I thought that if I will be "straight man" - then it will be easier to find woman to love, people will stop hating me and accept as just normal man. Not worked out.

And this all have nothing really to do with being a trans, as it is just an escape. It is not "I want to be NB" or "I want to be a man", it is all just "I don't want to be a woman, let me be anything, just escape womanhood".

I am pretty sure if I was a teen today, I'd be among the first jumping transman train. And that makes me even more sad about the situation.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My impression is that these transtrenders & autogynaephiles outnumber trans people. Do they help (via numbers & mainstreaming) or undermine the cause?

Watching interviews with Abigail Shrier was very eye-opening. She should have made it clearer that she isn't talking about trans people, by emphasising their appropriation, & calling them something else.

How do you define what you seem to think are bona fide "trans people"?

You seem to be saying that that autogynephiles aren't "real trans". My understanding is that a majority of transsexuals have always been heterosexual men with AGP. Such as James Jan Morris and Richard Raskin/Renee Richards, famous figures - and husbands and fathers - who went "trans" in the 1970s.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You seem to be saying that that autogynephiles aren't "real trans". My understanding is that a majority of transsexuals have always been heterosexual men with AGP. Such as James Jan Morris and Richard Raskin/Renee Richards, famous figures - and husbands and fathers - who went "trans" in the 1970s.

I'd link the Dr. Em piece about what was happening before Be Nice Feminism, but uncommongroundmedia is down right now. The AGPs have been here the whole time and trying to insert themselves into lesbian spaces the entire time.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don’t feel like I am in a place to speak for trans men.

But I am bothered by the nondysphoric and especially non medically transitioning crop claiming to be trans women. I’m not arguing the shouldn’t be able to dress how the please or do what they want with their body because bodily autonomy is huge for me and I don’t like sexed behavior requirements. That being said some asshole waving their penis around in a women’s locker room or whatever and abusing protections we have managed hurts us.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you don't want men appropriating 'trans-woman', but see no problem with trans-womxyn appropriating 'woman'?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t think I’m appropriating woman, I just am one.

And as I said I am not arguing they shouldn’t be able to do anything because it’s their body and sexed behavior expectations are bad, I just wish they behaved better.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh sorry, I misread what you said.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not a problem.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What is a true trans identity? Is it having dysphoria? Because many AGP males in r/askagp speak about crippling dysphoria and their desire to transition. I don't understand how a sexual paraphilia (or however else you would define it) would lead to dysphoria. I'm trying to understand it, but I barely understand normal male sexuality, not being a male.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm curious though. Do you think masculinity and femininity are inherently linked to sexual expression and feeling?

Do you find masculinity, that is social expression of it, sexually attractive?

If you do, do you think that's natural?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do you think masculinity and femininity are inherently linked to sexual expression and feeling?

That would depend on your definition of each. I'm not being snarky, it can really mean anything to anyone, especially here.

Do you find masculinity, that is social expression of it, sexually attractive?

I've thought about this and I don't know, because my SO isn't classically masculine. He is physically masculine, which is attractive to me, but if I looked at his traits some are 'traditionally' feminine or masculine and I don't want to pick the evidence to meet the conclusion, you know? If he wore dresses or did his nails, I know I'd be out, but I couldn't tell you why that matters more than any of his other 'feminine' aspects. I think assertiveness or lack of people pleasing is one of the only "masculine" traits I find sexually attractive, everything else is contextual.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That would depend on your definition of each. I'm not being snarky, it can really mean anything to anyone, especially here.

Right but do you think it matters to other people. How natural do you think that is?

People on gcdebatesqt are often the exception that proves the rule.

I've thought about this and I don't know, because my SO isn't classically masculine. He is physically masculine, which is attractive to me, but if I looked at his traits some are 'traditionally' feminine or masculine and I don't want to pick the evidence to meet the conclusion, you know?

In what ways is he not traditionally masculine?

Are people likely to assume he is gay for instance?

Which to me is a good rule of thumb regarding what counts as gender non conforming.

If he wore dresses or did his nails, I know I'd be out, but I couldn't tell you why that matters more than any of his other 'feminine' aspects. I think assertiveness or lack of people pleasing is one of the only "masculine" traits I find sexually attractive, everything else is contextual.

I mean I obviously think a woman finding feminine gender expression very attractive in a man and finding assertiveness is is perfectly natural for a heterosexual woman.

But that implies a level a gender essentialism.

Gender essentialism which can also be expressed as natural gender variance in a minority.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The same way I feel about unicorns. Neither exist