QT: How do you feel about the increasing numbers of girls appropriating trans identity to fuel a teen sub-culture, while men appropriate trans identity to fuel a sexual fetish?

submitted 3 years ago by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (5 children)

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (4 children)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (3 children)

Do you think masculinity and femininity are inherently linked to sexual expression and feeling?

That would depend on your definition of each. I'm not being snarky, it can really mean anything to anyone, especially here.

Do you find masculinity, that is social expression of it, sexually attractive?

I've thought about this and I don't know, because my SO isn't classically masculine. He is physically masculine, which is attractive to me, but if I looked at his traits some are 'traditionally' feminine or masculine and I don't want to pick the evidence to meet the conclusion, you know? If he wore dresses or did his nails, I know I'd be out, but I couldn't tell you why that matters more than any of his other 'feminine' aspects. I think assertiveness or lack of people pleasing is one of the only "masculine" traits I find sexually attractive, everything else is contextual.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (2 children)

That would depend on your definition of each. I'm not being snarky, it can really mean anything to anyone, especially here.

Right but do you think it matters to other people. How natural do you think that is?

People on gcdebatesqt are often the exception that proves the rule.

I've thought about this and I don't know, because my SO isn't classically masculine. He is physically masculine, which is attractive to me, but if I looked at his traits some are 'traditionally' feminine or masculine and I don't want to pick the evidence to meet the conclusion, you know?

In what ways is he not traditionally masculine?

Are people likely to assume he is gay for instance?

Which to me is a good rule of thumb regarding what counts as gender non conforming.

If he wore dresses or did his nails, I know I'd be out, but I couldn't tell you why that matters more than any of his other 'feminine' aspects. I think assertiveness or lack of people pleasing is one of the only "masculine" traits I find sexually attractive, everything else is contextual.

I mean I obviously think a woman finding feminine gender expression very attractive in a man and finding assertiveness is is perfectly natural for a heterosexual woman.

But that implies a level a gender essentialism.

Gender essentialism which can also be expressed as natural gender variance in a minority.

[+][deleted] 3 years ago (1 child)

[deleted]

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

I think sometimes you word things in a way where I don't understand what you're arguing for exactly, but I'm starting to see your belief system and kind of connect the dots from there. I think it's just my perceived definition of a word and yours.

Yes sorry I am probably jumping about here in the way I am using gender. Everyone tends to use it to mean different things at different times.

Gender can relate to biology or social forms like gender expression, gendered roles, gendered behaviours.

So if I read this right, you and I both agree in some kind of gender essentialism,

Yes

in which biology drives at least some of what we see in the social differences between men and women.

yes

I disagree with GC notions that gender is a social construct.

yes

If you were thinking that not having a social expression of masculinity is being perceived as gay,

Yes I think masculinity is perceived as being correlated to gynophilia.

Which I think is true, people who express masculinity, men or women, are more likely to express attraction to women.

no, my SO is not perceived as gay. The kind of person that would get beat up on for being a 'nerd,' 'simp' or 'beta', even though he is not.

I don't know where you're going in relation to what my question about a real trans identity is though? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the mental exercise.

The Blanchardian model of "homosexual transsexual" and "autogynephilic" doesn't say one is real and another is not. It says that "autogynephilics" so desperately want to fulfil a sexual desire that they transition.

But that's not quite my understanding of things. I'm not saying this expression and behaviour doesn't exist, I'm saying I think it might have different triggers.

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