Discuss with just facts?

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

You've made the positive claim - there is innate sexuality. You have to prove that. I can't prove there is no god, but religious people are on the line to prove it. People have plenty of reasons for sexuality - trauma, being exposed to something at the time of sexuality discovery and certainly socialization. There are plenty of potential reasons to explain sexuality, but there is no reason to believe it is innate. Again, those who make the claims have to prove their existence. It was the our community who claimed it was to deflect negativity in a campaign for acceptance. It's clear sexuality can change. That is not innate.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Lmao so you’re saying that the billions of people who have said that they didn’t choose their sexuality have to prove this, even straight people?

But you don’t have to prove that sexuality is a choice? Makes sense. Totally makes sense.

Maybe gay people chose to be gay so they could be murdered, threatened, told their “lifestyle” was illegal and a sin against God, and have to spend decades fighting for equal rights (once it was finally safe enough to just be openly gay to begin with). They probably just did it because they were bored or something. It certainly took time, so it’s a great way to pass the time.

Eta- on a post full of ignorant nonsensical comments, this may be the top! Congrats.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On my proves nothing was responded :(

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

I'm not saying anything, except that there is no evidence sexuality is innate. You're real spun up about this, though.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I just think you’re trolling. You don’t Make any sense. And I think it’s odd that you won’t answer the questions we asked about it. It’s also odd that you can’t give any reason for why you don’t think sexuality is innate and that your own comments about your sexuality imply that it’s an innate part of you. Like you just wanted to say some shit to say it. I hate when people say things like that and can’t back it up, but continue to repeat it, as if that proves their point. Sorry I responded to you initially as if you were here to debate. Clearly you’re not.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I promise you I'm not trolling. You're not answering my question - where is evidence sexuality is innate? It was the lgbt community who claimed all sexualities are innate responding to Catholic criticisms that heterosexuality is innate. There is no evidence of a gay gene. The claim that sexuality is innate is unfounded. I did want to say some shit about it - I've been a part of the community for three decades, and I dislike when the LGB community claims sexuality is innate - that there's some true self based in biology no less, and sees no hypocracy with the TRA claims that transsexualism is innate. We opened the doors for this.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I asked you questions. You didn’t answer them. You haven’t proven that it’s not innate and most people, including the people here, including even the most qt of people here, understand that sexuality is innate. Like I said- why would someone choose a sexuality that they knew would ostracize them and put them at risk?

If heterosexuality is innate there’s no reason to not see that homosexuality is as well. Both are true.

Is there evidence of a heterosexual gene? Genuine question.

Since you’re a member of the community- when, and why, did you choose to be homosexual? How did you train your body to respond sexually to the same sex? How did you suppress the heterosexual gene you must’ve been born with?

Lastly, I don’t think saying you are attracted to the same sex and have no control over who and what you are attracted to is comparable to saying you were born in the wrong body or have a “gender identity” that doesn’t match your sex. They are completely different things. One side is saying, “I heart the same genitalia as what I have , and would like to not be persecuted for that”. The other side is saying “I am the opposite gender to my sex, I understand what it is to be the opposite gender even though I came to this conclusion while I appeared and was treated solely as the sex I was born. Now I demand that you and everyone accept what I say as fact and valid. If you don’t- you’re a bigot.” Not the same.

Sorry- this is the last thing: a quick google search would show that there’s actually ample evidence that sexuality is in fact innate. But go ahead and keep insisting that there isn’t lol. Weird flex, but you do you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

I'm not claiming heterosexualitiy is innate. That's my point. There is no proof sexuality is innate. There are a number of reasons someone would choose a sexuality they know would ostracize them and put themselves at risk, but there's also plenty of reason to believe sexuality is formed through experience. There is evidence to support that. I'm not going to disprove your claim - I don't have to prove something isn't - that's not how debate works. If someone makes a positive claim, they have to support it. This is up to you to prove there is any bit of evidence other than your feelings that sexuality is innate. In any form.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And what experience do have gay men in Iran, where it is impossible to know from anywhere about homosexuality and no one will show, tell or even hint on it for them?

positive claim

All negative claims were proven wrong, as poster above said. And if all negative claims are wrong then positive claim is true, as it was not disproven by all tries.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

This is more whataboutism. Surely the male children in Iran who have been sexually assaulted by a male know a thing or two about same-sex relations. Please do better than trying to prove someone is wrong with "what about the hijras and two spirit and seahorses!"

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So gay men in Iran are just rape victims? And lesbians how appearing in there then?

One of doctors who was "curing" me from lesbianism, thought that I had sexual assault experience and just was afraid of penises. You are going good road along those homophobes.

They did a lot of things trying to cure me. Took them around 10 years, and than homophobic laws were cancelled (I wonder how I learned lesbianism at the age of 7-9). Can tell you about all methods used, I am not triggered much anymore from remembering that time.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

“There are a number of reasons someone would choose a sexuality they know would ostracize them and put themselves at risk. I’m just going to continue to avoid clarifying what they may be while I also avoid answering your questions.”

If sexuality isn’t innate you should be able to answer my questions. It’s odd that you refuse to answer me, your own comments contradict your stance, but you keep clinging to it lol. I think at this point I’m over responding to people who skirt the topic and just keep repeating themselves with no basis. So unless you answer my questions I think we’re done here.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

What questions? You want me to account for how everyone's sexuality is formed? There are 7.5 billion, and my stat is that the level of bisexual women went from 2% (same as bisexual men) tp 13% in a decade. That's a fact. We are all programmed via the same hypersexual socialisation that teaches that women are sex objects. This topic is discuss with facts. Fact - sexuality can change. Fact - there is no evidence to support innate sexuality. You say it's innate. I'm not claiming it's anything other than a social construct we've labeled and created identities around. If it's innate, you have to provide the proof. You're the one refusing to answer my questions. Where is ANY evidence ANY sexuality is innate?

"If God isn't real, you should be able to prove it." No, Sloane, the person who makes the positive claim must prove it. That's the atheism debate - people not claiming religious beliefs are real can't be expected to prove God, gender, invisible flying unicorns, sexuality. It isn't proven if they haven't and one can only assume it isn't real.

What question do you want me to answer that isn't some whataboutism trying to deflect my point via random "why would this example do this if they're persecuted for it?" questions (why would religious people be killed for their beliefs - they'd say that one can't believe in another (unproven) god, and they'll die via persecution to stay true) or asking about my sexuality to decide to strawman or decide my qualifications aren't enough to speak on the topic.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Lmao calm down.

I asked you how you chose your sexuality and why you chose it. I asked you how you trained yourself to be attracted to the same sex, and if you had to suppress heterosexual feelings.

I just assumed you were qualified to speak on yourself, my bad.

also, fyi, when people claim something is a social construct, they can at least express how they see that construct appear and impact people. “It’s a social construct” is not a “get out responding free” card lmao

And yes, if you’re going to say that sexuality isn’t innate, you are saying that people chose something life threatening and that meant they’d not have equality and would have to hide their relationships or force themselves into heterosexual relationships as a cover, you’re basically saying they chose a sexuality that they had to suppress or keep a secret- I am incredibly curious about why so many people would do this to themselves when they could just choose to be heterosexual, I asked you that and you said “many reasons” but failed to offer even one. But I guess you can ignore that part since it’s clearly out of your depth. You claim that it’s media, but won’t address the fact that sexuality existed before media did. And that many people have a sexuality that goes against what media pushes on people. I just think when you argue against something that most people accept as a given, questions pop up, and it’s odd that you’d snap and defend not answering it, when you are the one who came here with a view that most people don’t share- so the onus would actually be on you to prove what you claim. Nobody else blinked when the other commenter said sex was innate. Only you did. You introduced a new claim- you should be able to easily back it up. The burden would be on you but go ahead and take it off because clearly you can’t carry it.

I will say tho, media is a poor answer becuse the narrative for decades was “hetero good, homo bad, bi not a thing” and we still had homosexuals and bisexuals. There’s not more bisexual people now, imo. There’s just more openly bisexual people now. But whatever. Clearly you can’t handle debate so we can drop it.