Why this thread?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Trans gay are still gay men, and the right to participate in the sub as much as cis gay men do. So yes cis gay men will have to deal with trans gay men. Now most posts agree you don't have to sleep with anyone for any reason. Though one user (user A) said if a gay man is post-op there is no reason not to date them. User B said people can sleep with whomever they want. User A asks user B if he would reject a gay man who lost his penis due to an injury and he replies yes. User A called user B an asshole. Other than that people respect each others boundaries. You don't want to date fat men, fine. You don't want to date men of a certain race, fine. Though there were a few comments that were transphobic, such as telling a trans dude he doesn't belong in the sub. All the OP asked is for users not to be transphobic. He made it clear you don't have to date or sleep with anyone for any reason. I understand many trans people think not wanting to date/sleep with them is transphobic, but this thread isn't one of them and shouldn't be attacked.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Oh! So you’re forcing gay men to accept your concept of gay men and saying they have to deal with them?! Wow. Those men aren’t even allowed to have a space free from transmen, even though they don’t consider them men. Based on your rules?

The reason the thread was “attacked” is because many of not most of the commenters don’t see transmen as men to begin with. So you’re saying that trans people have the right to force entry wherever they see fit based on their ideology. And it’s clear from that thread and many others, including the ones in the links you asked for but never acknowledged, that the majority of gay n don’t include transmen as men or as gay men.

Yet it’s the gc feminists who don’t care about gay men, not you and the transmen infiltrating their spaces when it’s clear they aren’t wanted there by the vast majority.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Enforcing "gays must accept this" is just homophobia tbh.

Ah yes...I wonder why gay men feelings does not matter, but transmen feelings do matter? Isn't gay men oppressed too and even evil GC feminists doesn't care about them? I thought we should think about their feelings. I guess not and transmen feelings mean more then...

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Gay trans men are gay men and have every right to participate in that sub. The thread was calling out transphobia, while acknowledging you can sleep with whoever you want and your attractions are not transphobic. If cis gay men have a problem with it, they can create a sub on saidit or start their own website like Ovarit where they can ban whoever they want. Reddit doesn't welcome transphobia.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Like I said- you are forcing your ideology on a group of people regardless of how they may feel. They did create their own sub- transmen invaded it. Reddit doesn’t welcome “transphobia”, fine. Then the sub will get banned eventually- because clearly the overall consensus is that transmen aren’t considered men by the majority of that sub. And the gay men will move to a space where they can ban heterosexual women who think they’re gay men, as you said. So nobody needed to be reminded that reddit skews in favor of trans people- we are all well aware. The point is not that reddit allows them to invade other people’s spaces- the point is that the people in the space that was invaded don’t see them as men, let alone gay men. You asked why the post was “attacked”. That’s why.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just 30 years ago, here, doctors were saying "just date very manly woman or woman with PCOS (and they often much more 'manly' than transmen), so you can fix your genital preferences to a normal one", and if you refused - you could get into jail or forced to unpaid "social works". They were saying "it is masculinity what attracts you".

15 years ago if any doctor will say that - they will be charged for homophobia.

Today people are saying the very same, with very same words (maybe phrasing a bit differently, instead of "fix" there "unlearn"), and it is punished in similar ways - instead of jail or unpaid work, you can lose job and be banned (in some USA states you can be put in jail, tho). History repeats itself, homophobia is strong as ever.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They are not, same as masculine women are not gay men. You do realize, that you are doing and saying absolutely the same that our homophobic goverment was doing to "fix" us? Either accept that "very masculine women are men too and unlearn your genital preferences", or go in jail. Nowadays Iran goes even further and not forcing gay men into vaginal sex with "manly females" but transitioning them into transwomen, and the only alternative is death. And even their rhetorics is copy, here it is:

“The government believes that if you are a gay man your soul is that of a woman and you should change your body.”

“This is a way to fight the existence of homosexual people because you change their body and you solve the problem.”

You are using same terminology, same arguments, and trying to enforce same actions on homosexual people as the most conservative countries of the current age and as homophobic countries of the past. Same words, same actions, same rhetorics, same aquisitions. I am old enough to live through different phases of homophobia in countries with homosexuals being outlawed, and I lived in few different countries for a decent amount of time (more than 3 years in each) where homosexuals are outlawed.

Why you do not want to see this and to accept this? It is facts, it is lived experience of thousands, if not millions of homosexual people, especially ones who are living or were livign outside of some European countries and some USA states.

Why do you think that safe spaces for gay men must include not gay men? Why places like "/r/Periods" and '/r/PCOS" must include transwomen too, if they never ever can experience those and suffer from those? Why policing language and not letting people who suffering from it to be able to speak about their problems - and all because someone who can never understand or experience those problems at all?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They are not, same as masculine women are not gay men.

Trans men are not masculine women. They are men. I know a few women who look butch but they are clearly distinguishable from passing trans men. None of these women have beards, whereas trans men on T have beards. Also a trans man's skin and voice is that of a man. Though voice isn't necessarily an indicator of gender. Celia Cruz sounds like a man. The transman I briefly dated passed well.

You do realize, that you are doing and saying absolutely the same that our homophobic government was doing to "fix" us? Either accept that "very masculine women are men too and unlearn your genital preferences", or go in jail.

I have said many times in this thread and other threads that no one should be compelled to have sex with anyone for any reason, even if that reason is that they're trans.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you ever seen women with PCOS? They do have beards, and they are exposed to extra testosterone sinse childhood, heavy cases are looking almost like men, unlike most transmen.

I have said many times in this thread and other threads that no one should be compelled to have sex with anyone for any reason, even if that reason is that they're trans.

Problem is the speech itself, and terminology used. Like calling it "preferences". It is same as calling your born height - preference. What that language is saying, is literally: "his height preference is being 169 cm, he should unlearn it and become 175 cm, otherwise he is bigoted".

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They aren't gay by definition, saying otherwise is homophobia and conversion therapy (similar to which was already used in my country of origin just 30 years ago).