Does GC feminism include trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I dunno how to quote yet so I'll just say:

Supporting someone doesnt mean you have to believe what they believe. I support the rights of women who wear hijab in australia, even though personally I don't believe in this practice.

E.g. Transmen need our support, trans men (along with non binary females) in australia are more likely to experience sexual assault than transwomen (or non binary males). If twaw and tmam this makes no sense (not reflective of men and women rates of sexual assault) however, radical feminism offers a sex based explanation for this.

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

eee! I'm so happy to see you here (I have nothing more to say, y'all are handling this person like a boss)

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hello!! I'm glad to see you're here too! It's like finding ppl after a shipwreck lol

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's amazingly accurate, and brought me joy.

Are you interested in the formal discord that was started when the sub was worried about getting banned? Imma mod there!

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Supporting someone doesnt mean you have to believe what they believe. I support the rights of women who wear hijab in australia, even though personally I don't believe in this practice.

You don't have to agree with women wearing a hijab, but you can still respect their choice, not make up your own reasons why they choose to wear the hijab, or calling them oppressive.

E.g. Transmen need our support, trans men (along with non binary females) in australia are more likely to experience sexual assault than transwomen (or non binary males).

Source? And cite statistics on trans people being sexually assaulted, not cis people.

By the way, you quote by putting a "> " before a paragraph. Here is the Reddit Formatting Guide that this site uses.

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks - forgive formatting

You don't have to agree with women wearing a hijab, but you can still respect their choice,

I do. That's exactly what I'm saying.

not make up your own reasons why they choose to wear the hijab, or calling them oppressive.

Respectfully Disagree. I have a friend who has been coerced by their family to wear hijab, and take it off when they are with me. I am allowed to use my critical thinking to interrogate this situation through a feminist lens.

Sure thing its the THE 2018 AUSTRALIAN TRANS AND GENDER DIVERSE SEXUAL HEALTH SURVEY REPORT OF FINDINGS.

Excluding those who did not answer these questions, survey participants reported rates of sexual violence or coercion nearly four times higher than found in the general Australian public [19]. Sexual violence and coercion were much more common among participants who had been assigned female at birth – trans men and non- binary people – compared with those assigned male (61.8% vs 39.3%, p<0.001). Non-binary participants who had been assigned female at birth were most likely to report sexual violence (66.1%) followed by trans men (54.2%) and non- binary people assigned male at birth (44.5%). Whilst trans women least commonly reported sexual violence (36.1%), this remains almost twice that of the general public [19].

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's also backed up by figures from the USA.

Experiences also varied across gender, with transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificate (58%) being more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in contrast to transgender women (37%) and non-binary people with male on their original birth certificate (41%)

https://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/USTS-Full-Report-FINAL.PDF

People born female are more likely to experience sexual assault than those born male.

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh really! thank you for this, I had a hunch this would be reflected in other countries (by assessing the situation through a sex based, feminist lens) but had no data.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Respectfully Disagree. I have a friend who has been coerced by their family to wear hijab, and take it off when they are with me. I am allowed to use my critical thinking to interrogate this situation through a feminist lens.

In this case your friend made it clear that she doesn't want to wear a hijab. There are women who want to wear a hijab, and there are women who don't want to wear a hijab and both are OK. However, many trans men made it clear many times that they are not transitioning to escape misogyny, or are lesbians in denial, yet GC continues to impose these narratives on trans men.

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are women who want to wear a hijab, and there are women who don't want to wear a hijab and both are OK.

Of course? You need nuance. Obviously if people want to wear hijab they should be allowed. Women wearing hijab because of coercion can be assessed with a feminist lens. Modesty perception within cultures and how it affects women can also be assessed without ripping hijabs off womens heads.

However, many trans men made it clear many times that they are not transitioning to escape misogyny, or are lesbians in denial, yet GC continues to impose these narratives on trans men.

And some are transitioning to deal with misogyny or internalised homophobia and we have evidence of this from detransitioners. Like the hijab wearers of the world encompass both choice and coerced women, so too can transmen encompass both females who benefit from transition and some(not majority!) females who don't.

Nuanced discussion allows us to see both groups wuthout demonizing either.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And some are transitioning to deal with misogyny or internalised homophobia and we have evidence of this from detransitioners. Like the hijab wearers of the world encompass both choice and coerced women, so too can transmen encompass both females who benefit from transition and some(not majority!) females who don't.

Nuanced discussion allows us to see both groups wuthout demonizing either.

You are correct, but many GC feminists like to insist the MAJORITY of trans men transition due to misogyny or because they are lesbians in denial, when that's not the case.

Of course it's important to hear all types of detransition stories and support detransitioners, but remember those who transitioned to escape misogyny make up a minority of trans men.