Intelligence isn't genetic

submitted by Chipit from i.redd.it

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[–]Zahn 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/03/12/dna-tests-can-predict-intelligence-scientists-show-first-time/

You're pretty quick to ad hominem. Makes me wonder about your own intelligence level. It's ok if you can't science but you can't be cherry picking if you believe science or not once it doesn't fit your narrow minded viewpoint of the world.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2163484-found-more-than-500-genes-that-are-linked-to-intelligence/

[–]whereswhat 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Ad hominem? Seems a stretch to me. My quip about education was to highlight how nurture can be more important than nature.

Contrary to your apparent assumption, I don't deny that genetics dictate what our brains are capable of. That doesn't end the discussion on the importance of nature versus nurture though. For examlple, a poorly trained neural net still performs just as poorly when run on a super-computer or a desktop PC. By analogy, the same is true for both human and dog brains. Overall brain power is only useful if the brain is taught to do useful things.

The big difference between human and dog brains is the physical architecture. Variations in human intelligence are relatively small compared to that of dogs because our baseline intelligence is so much higher (due to completely different architecture).

Both of the sources you linked acknowledge that nurture plays a significant role in "intelligence" levels. There are so many other studies to consider though (you may want to check out some of the twin studies that have been done). Most of the available evidence suggests that with the right nurture, almost any human can become a positive contributor to society.

[–]Chipit[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

So there is little difference between the humans who watch Jerry Springer and those who read The Atlantic?

I'll inform the Atlantic readers at once that they are quite similar. Do you think they will agree?

[–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that people get "created equal in the eyes of god" and "made exactly the same apart from skin color" confused

[–]whereswhat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

There is little difference in the genetically determined architecture of their brains, yes. There are likely significant differences in how their brains have developed after they were born though. I don't care if they agree and am not going to speculate on that.

[–]Chipit[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

So, Atlantic readers and Jerry Springer watchers are the same? Come on, that's a lie and you know it.

You can't make unintelligent people intelligent by raising them, neither can you make intelligent people stupid.

I thought we all despised stupid people, did that change?

[–]whereswhat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

You can't make unintelligent people intelligent by raising them, neither can you make intelligent people stupid.

Did you even read my comment?

So, Atlantic readers and Jerry Springer watchers are the same?

Don't put words in my mouth please. Details matter. Genetics plays no role in determining one's likelihood of being a Jerry Springer fan. Once someone is a Jerry Springer fan, however, the damage is probly done and I agree there is likely no hope.

[–]Zahn 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's estimated an average person can only gain 5 Iq points via education/environment. The majority of intelligence is inherited.

This is so obvious that I'm concerned with your attempts at explaining it away with so much extraneous complication. Many of your explanations play only a minor role. Quora had some unusual alacrity on this topic: https://www.quora.com/Can-I-raise-my-IQ-by-becoming-more-educated

[–]H3v8 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's estimated an average person can only gain 5 Iq points via education/environment.

There are countries where the prevalent concept is that everyone should go to university and get a degree and intelligence doesn't matter. Parents spend a fortune on private tutors and private schools to get their offspring into university, and even then you end up with young adults who are clearly not able to grasp slightly complex concepts or even write a small essay. While other kids study on their own and succeed using minimal means.

However, because society thinks that intelligence doesn't matter, we end up with all of them treated the same, getting the same degree through a system of corruption and favoritism, and the result is the global crisis we witness these days.

On the other hand, nobody says that everyone can be a football player because genetics don't matter, and the crowds worship athletes who are often unable to utter a coherent sentence. Sometimes they are elected as MPs and the result is embarrassing.

EDIT: I should add that I'm talking about relatively racially homogenous countries, and what I described is not US-specific.

[–]whereswhat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are we equating IQ with intelligence now?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

What are you concerned about? This is a complex subject. Details matter.

[–]Chipit[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Genetics plays no role in determining one's likelihood of being a Jerry Springer fan

It's entertainment beloved by people of low intelligence. Springer shows that there are even worse people out there than they are. This makes them feel good, because their own lives are so low-status and it's nice to look down on someone for a change, seeing that the rest of the world looks down on them. Don't you look down in low intelligence people? It's something very common among a certain segment of high intelligence people. If you don't...why not? Low intelligence people cause most of the problems in the world. Trump, Brexit, populism, the list goes on.

Atlantic readers are of high intelligence. Nobody but high intelligence people would find their content stimulating. Low and medium intelligence people regard reading The Atlantic as worse than having to write a book report.

Did you know you could do very well by moving to a country full of low intelligence people? You can easily fool them, hoodwink them, cheat them, and make a ton of money doing so. You would also get to look down on pretty much everyone in society.

[–]whereswhat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Replace "intelligence" with "education" and you might be on to something.

[–]Chipit[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Low intelligence people find school - and learning in general - tiring and they don't like it. That's sort of the hallmark of low intelligence, the inability or disinclination to learn. High intelligence people love learning. That's why they read The Atlantic, there's always something to learn in it.

You can't put low intelligence people into Harvard and turn out Atlantic readers.

It's funny how all anyone has to do is mention "West Virginia" and suddenly the hereditary nature of intelligence suddenly comes back. "You cousin-fucking scum suckers have been stupid for five generations!" LOL

[–]whereswhat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everyone finds school and learning in general tiring. It is exhausting even if you are brilliant.

Reading the Alantic is a leisure activity compared to learning continuum mechanics, e.g.. A high IQ is not required for either though.

Try to keep an open mind. Nurture has a profound impact on perceived intelligence. People of all races can be idiots. People of all races can be brilliant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

[–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

already established and referenced that education can't shift IQ by much.

[–]whereswhat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You misunderstood me. I am effectively saying education level is probably a better predictor of one's likelihood to be a fan of Jerry Springer than IQ.