all 32 comments

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you put everything into the perspective that they are trying to destroy America, it makes sense.

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Similarly the "markets" cheered on the UK spending £400 billion on covid and writing a blank cheque to the Ukraine but when the government wanted to give £45 billion in tax cuts the markets crashed the economy because they thought they couldn't afford it ...

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"The markets"

Who controls enough money to do that?

[–]DNase 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Money is all made up anyway

[–][deleted]  (39 children)

[deleted]

    [–]TaseAFeminist4Jesus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

    You're a fucking moron if you believe any of that.

    [–][deleted]  (11 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]TaseAFeminist4Jesus 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

      Look up whether walls are easy to climb over?

      [–][deleted]  (9 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]TaseAFeminist4Jesus 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

        I'll respond to whoever the fuck I want to, you semen-slurping cuckold.

        Everything you've posted is ridiculous.

        You know, doors are easy to kick in. A motivated person could almost certainly kick your door in. It's probably easier than climbing a tall wall. You still lock your door, though.

        And there's no fucking justification for sending all that money to Ukraine. It's far more than Trump ever requested for a wall, your nit-picking be damned.

        I can see right fucking through you. You're a failure, and you want to drag my whole country to your level out of sour grapes.

        You underestimate the successful people of my country, though. We didn't get lucky, or steal, to get where we are. We're just better than you, and your day of reckoning is coming.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Shut up, bitch tits

          [–]monkeymagic 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          if trump was in office right now he’d be bailing in on ukraine too. the president is not in charge in any way, shape or form. stop looking at geopolitics like a 9 year old

          [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

          I’ll respond to you. You are disingenuous. You post bullshit. You posted a link proving that you’re wrong. I’m guessing you’re illiterate, too.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Time for bed, bitch tits.

            [–]TaseAFeminist4Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            I posted fucking logic. Muh source.

            [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Bitch tits needs an enema to wash out all the liberal semen infesting his brain

            [–]makesyoudownvote 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

            You are correct about the $15 billion spent on the wall.

            Almost all of it came out of US defensive spending and it is ALSO only a tiny fraction of the US military spending.

            The US has given $75 billion to Ukraine to date and only $46.6 of it came from our military spending.

            $75 billion vs 15 billion. Which is a smaller drop of USes budget?

            Let's put it this way. Which do you think would protect you better? Spending $100 to get a sturdy steel door on your house that locks, or sending $500 to your high school bully's little brother because that bully was mean to him? Which is more likely to stop bugs from getting in, or wild animals?

            Russia is nothing. They are a shadow of their former self. They have nuclear weapons, but virtually no reliable way to use them. Other than that they are conservatively at least 20 years behind the US in every way. Thanks to our high military defense budget.

            Also, I don't know how often you have been to the wall, but from a design and engineering standpoint, it's actually pretty damned impressive/amazing. Any fence or wall can be defeated, but this wall is actually among the more difficult to bypass. It's EXTREMELY difficult to climb and virtually impossible to cut through and fairly difficult to dig tunnels under. I think you conception of what the wall is, is completely off base. It's basically a bunch of 30 foot tall bollards, that are straight and staggered so you can't even fit an arm through them to grip anything. You can't set a standard ladder against them either because of the gaps. They are also buried fairly deep and tunneling them, though possible, is extremely difficult. Even if you manage to, if you dig too close to the top which is at minimum 6 feet deep, so say you dug 8-10 feet deep, the bollard could come sliding down blocking your tunnel and potentially impaling anyone under it at the time.

            As far as closure of military bases... Really? You do realize that the entire maritime economy depends on the enforcement by US military right? I'm not just talking about the US, the entire world economy would collapse if the US didn't protect trade and enforce global stability. This is the kinda hare brained theory that every fresh out of high school liberal arts college bound kid thinks.

            I'm further left than most of this site, and I'm definitely not a Trump fan boy. I actually am more inclined towards the other side of this. I do in general think supporting Ukraine is in our best interests. But your facts here literally make zero sense to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding.

            Also if you want a real threat to the US, look slightly further east to China. We are extremely lucky that our support of Ukraine didn't provoke China into supporting Russia. We'd still win, but at a huge cost, and not for long. Every piece of tech we send to Ukraine in their war brings China that much closer to determining how to defeat our tech, and they are already really close.

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

              I agree he's wrong.

              It's not "very small" though. Especially when you ran it in comparison to the wall. It's 5 times as much as the wall, 10 times as high of a rate ($75 billion in 2 years vs 15 billion in 4, (actually it was only 12 billion in 4, the other 3 is since 2020 but that's really splitting hairs)).

              If 15 billion is a lot then 75 billion is a fuck ton. That's the comparison being made. It's quite simple, it's 5 times as much in half the time!

              But more than that, Ukraine spending doesn't benefit us as much as the wall. I know that sounds silly, because of the way the information has been presented, and in a small way I will even contradict that statement, but basically Russia was either always going to win or always going to lose against Ukraine. If Russia had utilized their remaining strength well enough, it would have been over before US assistance would have meant much. But Russia hesitated and poorly strategized. Ukraine in the meanwhile played it's hand masterfully, especially when it came to garnering foreign aid and support. But Russia is basically on a death keel as a superpower. They haven't been nearly as strong as they convinced the world they were since the 80s. Our support while meaningful, in some ways, really doesn't amount to too much in terms of protecting us UNLESS the ultimate outcome is a de-nuclearization of Russia AND none of those nukes go to China.

              The wall on the other hand doesn't STOP illegal immigration, but it severely limits the easiest route that is the most difficult to control. There are several ways this is one of our biggest security flaws. It's not just about invading army's or conventional warfare. It could be espionage, or mass migration. Both could easily cripple us. The border wall makes both of these orders of magnitude more difficult and will continue to do so for a century or more.

              If this was some sort of ploy by China and Russia together as I believe it initially was. China stands to benefit even by not committing the way I believe they had agreed to to Putin. Every piece of tech that gets used in this war becomes less useful in later combat. China gets to learn from it's usage, find new weaknesses and exploits. They get to do this while benefiting from dirt cheap fuel supplies from Russia sold to finance their war and keep some form of trade going.

              Lastly only 46 billion of that 75 came from military budget. 29 billion came from other government branches.

              So basically it's the equivalent of maybe spending 1 billion to break Russia, 10-15 billion in PR with Europe, and the rest we might as well be paying for China to have direct access to our tech. It's overall a poor call strategically.

              There are really only three significant benefits.

              1. Russia turned out to be even less well equipped than we thought. We got to see Russia play it's hand and though we knew they were bluffing, we didn't know how badly.

              2. NATO stands more united than ever... BUT because idiots are shouting that the US isn't giving enough to Ukraine, even though we are objectively giving more than any other country besides Ukraine itself. Because of this the good will PR we bought is largely undone. Most European nations don't look at the numbers and think we are barely giving anything.

              3. It destabilizes Russia and embarrasses Putin and his regime. This may end any hope they had for rebuilding the USSR_2.0 and COULD potentially lead to a de-arming of their nuclear weapons. However we are nowhere near that yet, and that really isn't much more likely to happen with 75 billion than it would have been with 1 million.

              [–][deleted]  (5 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

                This isn't a response to my comment. Did you maybe read something else?

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                  This isn't a response to my comment. Did you maybe read something else?

                  In no way did I say that NATO shouldn't be involved. I just think the U.S. specifically is slightly over-committed in a way that doesn't benefit them. I think we hit diminishing returns on our involvement about 50 billion ago.

                  Again I get that it's a small portion of the overall defense budget, but then again the wall was a MUCH SMALLER PORTION of the defense budget.

                  I'm saying if you support 75 billion for Ukraine and say it's a "small portion of the defense budget" and say that 15 billion is an outrageous amount to spend on a border wall, you are a hypocrite.

                  I think both are decent investments in security, but the 15 billion for the wall provides a value equivalent to 100 billion, while the 75 billion investment in Ukraine, provides a value equivalent that is well below 75 billion. Something probably well below 15 billion. Much of that commitment ends up playing AGAINST the interest of the U.S. and honestly probably western society, including NATO on the whole. We won't see the results of this though until the impending conflict with China escalates.

                  China's military is improving at break neck speeds and is closing the gap. Our supply of weapons to Ukraine provides them with a potential of a 10 year leap in military technology to close the gap with the U.S. while cutting from internal investments and military investments with things like walls and newer weaponry that also costs us the equivalent of a few months to a year of progress.

                  It's just a simple cost benefit analysis that get's muddied by emotional inclinations.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                    Uhh, what?

                    It's literally THE comparison being made. That is the subject of this whole conversation. That was the subject of this thread.

                    You are the one who is making disingenuous comparisons. You talk about how it's a small percentage of the defense budget, when less than 2/3rds of the budget is being taken FROM the military budget.

                    Again the comparison being drawn was the $75 billion given to Ukraine, VS the $15 billion to the wall. That IS the comparison this entire discussion is hinging on. In your initial comment you criticize the wall, in several ways that are verifiably false, and than in other ways that are not unique to that, and in fact the Ukraine spending is objectively worse in each of the remaining ways.

                    That's it. If you slide your argument back to "I have x issue with the wall" that would be valid and we could discuss it.

                    If it's "I think that the $75 billion given to Ukraine is valid because x" which you have done, this would also be a valid point of discussion.

                    But to say the $15 billion is a complete waste of tax payer dollars and we should also be shutting down military bases, and then in the same breath say the $75 billion dollar donation is a small percentage of the military budget is just simply both hypocritical and INANE.

                    Does Ukraine need the money? Of course they do. I'm not saying they are bad guys or anything like that.

                    Does it benefit us to support Ukraine? Yeah it does.

                    BUT is $75 Billion excessive considering what benefit we get, THAT is one of the points of contention. I'm happy to discuss this and I may be wrong, but in my opinion, we are in a weird spot between giving basically the most we can without giving enough to be completely effectual. There is valid reason not to give more, but with this strategy, wouldn't it be better to give closer to the minimum to accomplish the same goal?

                    And for god's sakes, if you are comparing it to the wall, that's just silly. The wall is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE a better investment, and this is coming from someone who lived in Mexico for several years. Someone who typically votes against right wing immigration reform. It has less to do with Mexicans crossing the border in my opinion and more to do with the investment in something that will last for generations and provide much needed physical security. From an engineering standpoint (I am an engineer by profession) the wall is actually pretty genius in design. As crazy as 15 billion seems, it's actually a pretty low figure to cover so much wall, and I have no doubt it would have been twice as long by now with that investment if we didn't have to deal with people trying to stop it because they are convinced it's about racism and/or they suffer from Trump derangement syndrome and everything he does is awful.

                    [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

                    Fact: catturd said that congress did not approve $4b to build the wall. That’s true, and you know it, which is why you won’t respond to me.

                    You’re a fucking liar.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                      Nope. Keep going.

                      [–]Canbot 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                      It's also very easy to climb or cut through or dig tunnels under.

                      Because the design was intentionally sabatoged by boarder patrol. The same border patrol that currently fights Texas measures to reduce illegal border crossings.

                      We deserve a real wall like Israel has.

                      [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

                      Did congress approve that $15b?

                      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                        I already know the answer. I want to hear you say it.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                          So you know that you’re lying. You’re doing it deliberately, correct?

                          You are attempting to deceive everyone who reads this and discredit me, and you are doing it deliberately in furtherance of your own political goals.

                          Or was your point just to let us know you can’t read?

                          [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

                          You are a liar, and you know it. From your own source:

                          Trump’s signature promise to build a barrier along the southwest border of the U.S. propelled him to victory in 2016, and his administration during his term appropriated some $15 billion for its construction – a big chunk of which was taken from the Defense Department’s budget after Congress refused to meet the administration’s funding demands, prompting a lengthy government shutdown.

                          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

                            Stop lying, bitch tits.

                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                            [deleted]

                              [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                              Stop lying, bitch tits

                              [–]SMCAB 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

                              But but but ......... MY TEAM IS THE BEST TEAM!

                              [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

                              I’m a fan of reason and truth, myself. But to each his own, I suppose.

                              [–]SMCAB 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                              We all lean one way or the other, that's just nature. But in the context of raping you until you're dry of all liberty, assets, and money, who you vote for at that level, MEANS NOTHING. They are either all complicit in it, or are too stupid not to play right into the handbook.

                              [–]TitsAndWhiskeyRepublican Party[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                              We like to delude ourselves into believing that we have a choice, when in reality both teams have the same owner.

                              [–]MagicMike 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                              99% of politicians give the rest a bad name.