Liberalism is being expelled from its former strongholds, and the hegemony of liberal ideas, as we have known it since the 1960s, will end. In this essay, I would like to offer some initial remarks about the new Marxist victories in America—about what has happened and what’s likely to happen next.

submitted by Chipit from quillette.com

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Rhetorical: Why do all articles pick a side and point their collective fingers at the otherwise? Because, divide.

Hi, Chipit...wanna argue or am I still just an SJW that does not argue?

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

This isn't doing that. It's a conservative picking apart the problematic nature of Marxism and how it's destroying liberalism. And how liberals gave them all the weapons to make it happen.

SJWs don't argue. Debate is an Enlightenment value that only enables oppression. Overthrowing white males will never happen with logic and reason; the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. See: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Ok, Marxism has its problems and so does Democracy. I don't think ether way of living is perfect and both require rethinking as generations pass. I also think all governances are bastardized into supporting the few at the top more than the many. I think the woke not debating is bait for people to not pay attention to more important issues. If anyone does not debate it is non productive in the context of solving issues. To attach this basic idea to a group seems disingenuous to me. To simple group people with cliche media born phrasing "woke" is simply not true. I will guaranty not all people calling themselves woke don't debate.

I believe the general population has been and is being manipulated by many mechanisms. The root of which has noting to do with woke or not woke. My perspective is not shared my the majority. Yet, I will discuss/debate my points of view without hesitation. I harp on the fact we are conquered, because divided due to the simple nature of how easily humans are divided. Cheep media created phrases like "woke" is boring and unproductive and a continuation of the language used to keep divides between.

...create a great day...

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I think the woke not debating is bait for people to not pay attention to more important issues.

Negative. It is their intent to destroy Enlightenment thought and Western culture entirely. It's not a distraction. There literally are no more important issues.

If they win, and most of the Left is on their side, we go back to a pre-Enlightenment mode of thought. One where who you are is far more important than what you say.

Cheep media created phrases like "woke"

You are wrong. Critical theory created the phrase, and they created it with the express intent of creating a divide. Either you woke or you ain't. Failure to endorse social justice is tantamount to evil. Silence is violence.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Chipit, I think the arguments of both sides are created by leaders keeping the divide between. If you create total engagement with "woke" ideas you are being distracted as are the people on the otherwise chanting woke, woke I am woke. Ok, now move to Antifa and choose a side than off to emigration and pick a side, now off to what ever the fuck is in the news and pick a side and divide. I believe your last sentence says the same thing...chipit. <Critical theory created the phrase, and they created it with the express intent of creating a **divide**. Either you woke or you ain't. Failure to endorse social justice is tantamount to evil. Silence is violence.>. Dude if you reread what you wrote you actually support my position about it being distraction, bait and creates its own divide. I don't get you dude. It seems you need to take more time reading what I write and stop injecting your ideas into my words...take them at face value and don't read too much into them.

I believe it is time not to pick a side and be divided, but to realize all the sides where created within a socially fucked up culture. Since, over 5,500 years all cultures on Earth (exempt: aboriginal societies) are under Authoritative Hierarchal Patriarchy. We have had war going on somewhere on the planet since the dawn of time. We are all PTSD after this many centuries of this one sided bullshit economic hell creating more money for war and the pentagon than for living people.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How on Earth do you say we are "fucked up culture" when things are better for the whole of humanity than they have ever been? And it just gets better every single day?

Authoritative Hierarchal Patriarchy

Sigh...it's like talking to a wall with you people. MUH PATRIARCHY Jesus.

this one sided bullshit economic hell creating more money for war and the pentagon than for living people.

This is a lie. Who told you this? That person is a liar. Things are objectively better today, for everyone on planet Earth, than in any time in the 5,500 years of history you name. Fewer wars, less poverty, less starvation, improving standard of living.

The first step to legitimacy is when leftists simply start taking their critics seriously, rather than treating them as a pestilence to be eliminated.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ok, chipit...I give up. Any point of view I have shared you have dismissed in one way or another. Maybe this is why all the "woke" people do not debate with you. Do you ever see a compromise with others or is it all about pointing out how wrong they are? To dismiss Authoritative Patriarchy as helping create the situation we are in then I don't know how to converse with you. I am attempting a solving of our differences you are all about making sure the differences say between and divide.

You put me into "you people" category since your first comment to me. It is imposable to get out from under your limited perspective of my being. You have missed most of my content and dismissed all of my data and content. You are now a troll and you have not debated me yet only pointed out how ridiculous my view points are to you. To tell me <this is a lie> and go to point out some ephemeral idea in you head about today being better then any other day on planet Earth...is ridiculous to me.

Good luck Chipit, I don't think you know what compromise or debating with data means. I PMed you with an article and I will be interested how you smoosh this article into being something you think is a lie. You are full of catch phrases that get your emotions all twisted like a badly made pair of underwear. I don't have time to waist on people who do not know how to create understanding between and only spread the divide...of course if the other agrees with what ever you think is right and correct they will be your best friend. Speaking only to the choir is boring and speaking to someone so isolated in their own self righteousness to not hear any other idea enter their tunnel of reality is also boring and a fruitless behavior. Take care and I wish you the best.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To dismiss Authoritative Patriarchy as helping create the situation we are in then I don't know how to converse with you.

How can anyone have a conversation with a fanatic who thinks that the entirety of Western civilization is some sort of fascist nightmare? "Authoritative Patriarchy" WTF? You mean the liberal democratic system that brought peace and prosperity to the entire world? We are currently living in the best, most peaceful, most prosperous time in all of human history and things are only getting better overall. Despite some significant challenges we’re making tremendous progress as a species. We are not just less violent these days but better off in myriad other ways: healthier, smarter, happier, all thanks to the spread of science and reason. The exact science and reason that the SJW left is attempting to totally destroy. You can perhaps understand why people would get outraged about such a goal of a political team.

You are full of catch phrases that get your emotions all twisted like a badly made pair of underwear.

This is an ad hominem insult, not an argument. It explicitly violates Saidit.net's terms of service. You put yourself into the category of rational people who would never do such a thing, and then you do exactly that. This is why nobody takes you seriously. Your post was symptomatic of a set of snobbish and condescending attitudes that it is apparently all right to exhibit while still classifying oneself as left wing. The whole tone was horrifyingly high-handed, as if they were a schoolteacher marking a child’s work, or a psychiatrist assessing a patient.

To tell me <this is a lie> and go to point out some ephemeral idea in you head about today being better then any other day on planet Earth...is ridiculous to me.

It is 100 fucking percent true. Things are, by any standard you wish to measure, better than at any point in human history. Ever. And tomorrow will be better. Debating with data? LOL. You've got no data, only a corrosive narrative that says we're the worst thing ever.

Because of the extremity of our current situation, there is a real possibility in our time that many of humanity’s longstanding fixed ideas that no longer serve us are going to be outgrown, allowing new ideas and ways of seeing that are more reflective and in alignment with who we actually are to emerge and take their place.

Extremity of our current situation? That things are better than ever before? This is already founded on a lie.

The longstanding ideas are the ones that have stood the test of time and that work. Abandoning them has led to ruin and mass deaths every time it's tried. You know that, right?

The world that the new science is disclosing to us is characterized by a seamless wholeness utterly devoid of separate parts – this includes ourselves. In other words, the new self-worldview emerging from the highest wisdom of science is that we are not only not separate from the universe, but are ultimately not separate from each other as well – there is no separate self to be found anywhere, except as an idea in our minds with no correlate in reality. We are thus all interconnected and interdependent human cells in a vast self-organizing macro-organism that is in the process of attempting to up-level to its next stage of evolution.

This stinks to high heaven of collectivism. The same kind of collectivism that's been tried at large scales and small; and has failed every time it has been tried.

We are all individuals. Anyone who tells you otherwise is likely trying to get you to fall for a trick. Ask yourself why these people never implement collectivism in their own lives? Shouldn't university departments, especially those dominated by collectivists, put all of the salaries into one basket and divide evenly among all of the department members? But they don't. Why? Aren't we a seamless wholeness utterly devoid of separate parts? Nonsense. It's because they don't really believe in collectivism. They just want you to fall for it.

Since I read your essay, here's one for you. It's a lecture but you can get the transcript easily enough.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You like it the way it is...good for you. Yes, the underwear comment was a poke at your tone, since you and I started interacting. It maybe ad hominem and it is my personal feeling about the way you present your opinions in word. You are an angry person by what I have experienced from you. I accept you and I are not going to reach each other and I know this will be your proof I am part of what ever "woke" might be...I am not part of any group out there. I am my own individual.

You have made so many assumptions and misconceived ideas of who and what I am based in so few words and little bits of interaction. One example: <How can anyone have a conversation with a fanatic who thinks that the entirety of Western civilization is some sort of fascist nightmare? "Authoritative Patriarchy" WTF?>. I use the phrase Authoritative Patriarchy and you read into this as I am a fanatic and then tell me what I think. That is fucked up chipit. I am far from a fanatic and don't think we are in a fascist nightmare. I never stated these ideas to you about myself. You created them out of thin air due to the words I have written, yet these ideas are not in what I wrote.

Like I said anything I put before you, will be translated into "shite" by you. Good luck with what ever it is you are attempting to do on saidit. Man, you already have it all figured out and scream at anyone you think, thinks different than yourself. As the old wise man said, your cup is full and there is no more room for any more data/knowledge. The TedTalks video, I watch some years ago and appreciate his point very much. I don't think the world is as bad off as the News cycle tends to push upon its viewers and I don't think it is as great as the tedtalks video presents.

Good bye chipit you need to pick another target on saidit other than myself. We have shared enough to know this will never get ether of us anywhere. I wish you the best on your travels.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I use the phrase Authoritative Patriarchy and you read into this as I am a fanatic and then tell me what I think.

Nobody but fanatics uses phrases like that. WTF? How do you expect to maintain a rational discourse starting a conversation like that? Like western culture is some kind of disease. It's the best culture the world has created, hands down, and yet today's left wants it gone. If you're not a part of that, great. Try to talk some sense into the people who believe it wholeheartedly and are plotting our destruction.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just like vampires, the wetiko virus has a thirst for the very thing it lacks─the mystical essence of life─the “blood” of our soul, our very life-force. A member of the “undead,” the vampiric wetiko virus is fundamentally “dead” matter “taking on” and mimicking life itself; it is only in and through a living being that it acquires a quasi-life.

Now I'm sorry I ever read this guy's site. It's Alex Jones' vampires all over again. He's someone who's bright, has clearly read Jung, and yet comes up with this mystical energy field that surrounds us and penetrates us. He also mistakes quantum theory as something that pertains to human psychology. In my experience, people like this are lost. In the book 'DeBono's Thinking Course' there is a concept called "The Intelligence Trap". It outlines how intelligent people tend to avoid considering their positions once they have been established. They are so impressed with their internal arguments that they lose all humility and fail to consider additional data that might disconfirm their position.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ok, Marxism has its problems and so does Democracy. I don't think ether way of living is perfect and both require rethinking as generations pass.

Oh yes, the "I'll pretend both sides are as bad a each other so I don't have to look too hard" arguement.

The trouble is what we have in the West now is the best of all the options so far no matter how bad it is. The liberal way of dealing with that is to tinker away at problems as the arise to try to perfect the system. This is why capitalism has been able to lift people out of poverty even though in theory it shouldn't, because of the liberal politics which go along side it. In Marx's time liberalism caused people to starve on the streets which is why he was against it but it improved because it's values means it has to. It has to care about the suffering of the individual because that's its basis. The problem with marxists is that they want to completely destroy the current system and just assume that whatever replaces it will be better with zero evidence that that will be the case. It's more like a religious belief. Indeed Marx's followers believed they would see the new perfect world in their own lifetime just like Jesus's followers.

So the trouble with saying Marxism and democracy both need a rethink is that Marxists don't want to think. They want to start their end times count down.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<Oh yes, the "I'll pretend both sides are as bad a each other so I don't have to look too hard" argument.>. Not contained in my sentence, I prefer Democracy's problems over Marxist problems. You created your own argument with this one. The history of Russia's revolution RR and Marxism is a tricky study. My particular bent comes from this book: The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich. It is true the subject matter is about Fascism and how it can rise within any modern government system. Yet, Mr Reich spend quite a bit of time comparing Russia's history and its revolution to Germany's New Reich and how a deceived populations can be duped into "voting against their own interests". And this particular voting problem is also part of the democratic system.

I don't think the originators of the RR revolution meant to create what we see as modern Russia, as you say < Indeed Marx's followers believed they would see the new perfect world in their own lifetime just like Jesus's followers.>. I think there are a few good ideas in Marxist ways of social organization. I am not a Marxist, but I do not automatically denounce it due to my country's media and propaganda creating a very very bad monster picture of anything Marxist. I am not an expert, yet know by experience nothing is as absolute as the opinions some people have about Marxism.

To say <...Marxists don't want to think.> is an absolute and I have never found these types of statements to be true only partially. I understand your fever to support what you think is correct for all of us to think and behave. I am not interested in a fight and less interested in creating one with my words. I am interested in people that think for themselves and not repeat others definitions and words. Anyone can speak and write others words, that is easy. To think, speak and write original ideas about these old hat ideas is better than what school taught us...to regurgitate.

[–]scrubking 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't want to unite with leftists.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What about uniting with Americans?

[–]wrongthink 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They're a suspicious lot. I'll take my chances with giant meteor instead.

[–]ghostprototype 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This article conflates Marxism with identity politics when identity politics is antithetical to Marxism. Marxism plainly asserts that race/sex divides are used by the ruling class as a distraction to keep the working class fighting among themselves and punching sideways instead of uniting and punching up. Woke culture is a product of neoliberal capitalism. And like all products of capitalism, its novelties were amplified to hit maximum gains before it inevitably became a parody of itself and started to collapse

[–]Chipit[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Try to keep up. The old Marxism based on the working class is dead. They scratched off "class", wrote "race" in in crayon, and kept going. That is Critical Theory.

Why else do you think today's leftists utterly despise the working class? Racist deplorables. Critical Theory isn't going away. It's on a roll right now and is crushing institution after institution. Did you not notice when Bari Weiss resigned and told the world the New York Times was now in the hands of these people?

[–]ghostprototype 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

These 'leftists' you're referring to aren't Marxists. It's fallacious to start referring to Neoliberalism as Marxism just because the US political spectrum stops just at the left of the center. Idpol loving SJWs don't stop being neolibs just because they call themselves communists and spam ACAB. Classical marxists still exist, even if their numbers are insignificant, and even if there weren't the definition of Marxism would still remain the same

You want to critique the US 'left', please do, it's a dumpster fire, but call it what it actually is

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

These 'leftists' you're referring to aren't Marxists.

Oh God, not this argument again. "That's not real socialism". Do you people even realize what a parody of yourselves you sound like?

Classical marxists still exist, even if their numbers are insignificant

They might as well not exist. Anyway they're still as wrong as ever, because Marxism doesn't work and never will.

[–]ghostprototype 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is not an actual refutation of the fact that this article is erroneously referring to neoliberalism as marxism and ignoring what marxism actually is

I guess the 'pyramid of debate' is just a vague suggestion if semantics are treated with such low regard on this site

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're using an outdated definition of Marxism used only by fossils. The attempt to blame it on capitalism is comic.