Mental gymnastics...

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[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

The Bible does not prohibit abortion either.

There are many specific forms of killing that are not named in the Bible, but God covers them all in one commandment that he engraved in stone:

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

And in the New Testament, Jesus is recorded giving the Royal Law:

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Would you like for men to kill you when you are considered a nuisance and unwanted?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The commandments of a man spouting gibberish after getting lost on a mountain and inhaling the smoke of a hallucinogenic bush on fire, then came back declaring that God gave him tablets which he mysteriously lost and were never recovered, and which he appeared to have revised several times sometime after.

Nor does the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill" explain exactly what this means. Does it mean that you should not commit intentional murder? Or is involuntary manslaughter included? Moses did not seem to mind ordering his people to take up arms and kill his fellow man the same day of his return from the psychedelic hills.

The word of the Bible is questionable. https://youtu.be/v-63cTYJDCA

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You mock the word of God. Do you actually expect a response?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I mock the credibility of man who wrote the words you refer to. To deny me a response only legitimises my argument.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you do not believe God's word, why would you believe mine? If you were seeking the truth out of a sincere desire for it, you would find it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why would you be a more credible man than the man who claimed to write the words of a god? To remain truly free, is to be skeptical of the words of all people.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is right to be skeptical and ask questions, and doing so with a sincere desire for truth will lead you to it, and the truth shall make you free.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Moral truths remain questionable even after thousands of years, be it biblical, Socratic, etc.

I find fault in the image of mental gymnastics due to the assumption that a person must find a complicated answer to justify a simple choice. Today I killed a fly, the morality was irrelevant, I wished it dead. If this is evil, so be it.

I find the biblical argument to be flawed in that the morality people find in the texts are so often cherry picked and selective, else contradictory. Some morality in religious texts are either completely morally corrupt or at least very questionable, and cannot simply be 'put in context of the time' as the texts are applied to modern day problems.

Thou shalt not kill is actually very complicated, which is why in law we have such a depth of definition for the terms of murder, manslaughter, etc. There must also be a line drawn as to when murder, or the taking of a life, can be attributed to that which may not be technically alive. Many will disregard the sperm as being alive and opt for a heartbeat, I might argue that a parasitic worm can have a heartbeat.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Killing a fly is not the same as killing an unborn child. You are not a fly, but a human. Abortion is killing unborn humans, like you when you were still in your mother's womb. And God made man (not the fly) in his image. God made the child in the womb.

The unborn is like an unopened book that has yet to be read. And abortion is like censorship, destroying the book before the world ever had a chance to read it.

The commandment to not kill does not have to be complicated. Man, who perverts God's word, makes it complicated, because he wants to justify killing when God did not approve.

Here is how to make it simple: keep the Royal Law, which says: Whatever you want men to do to you, you do the same to them.

If you want men to destroy your flesh when society deems you to be a nuisance, like a bothersome fly, then continue to support abortion. If you want to receive mercy, then be merciful.

When Jesus Christ was being arrested by the Jewish officers, one of his disciples drew a sword and cut off the officer's ear. But God did not approve. Jesus healed the man's ear and rebuked his disciple, saying:

Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

If you approve of men using sharp instruments to cut up an unborn child while it is still in its mother's womb, then you also will die in your sins. It is God's justice. You will get what you also want for others. This is fair.

As for me, I want for you to repent. I also did the same. And I want you to live, to be blessed, and to be happy.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

The rest of the Bible: kill witches, kill your enemies, kill criminals, kill anyone who touches the Arc of the Covenant (God will do that for you), kill innocent people from another tribe because God wants you to steal their land and enslave their women and children, kill your child because God wants a sacrifice (God to Abraham: nah, just kidding, LOL -- God to Jephthah: did I fucking stutter?).

Even Jesus said “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).

The prohibition against killing only applies to people, and even then God allows exceptions. We kill plants and animals and insects a thousand times a day and nobody even blinks. A fetus is not a person.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Are you God's judge? You defend the right to kill the unborn, but then you seem to have a problem with God's judgments. The unborn are innocent. Witches and criminals are not. How about we leave the judgments up to the Judge? He commands us to not avenge ourselves, but to let God repay.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Those that support killing the innocent... the unborn children... should fear God's vengeance.

You leap to a conclusion that a baby in its mother's womb is not a person. You were once that weak and helpless. So does that mean you are not a person? Or, at what time did you become a person? Are you sure you are a living person even now?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Are you God's judge?

Maybe someone should be.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It is good to examine God's word with the intention of finding the truth, but it is not wise to try to be God's judge. God is already the most perfect being with far more wisdom than us. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Perfection shouldn't come with genocidal rage and impossible demands such as to police thought crime. This god you speak of is a tyrant and a dictator hell-bent on causing death and suffering. The same god would have you believe you are born in sin and must spend your entire life repenting and begging on your knees for forgiveness, it is despicable to act as though this were normal behaviour, let alone to refer to this manic as perfect.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I read your accusations against the God of the living, then I looked at your chosen username... I'm done with you. I am also done arguing with the guy that had his face eaten by weavils. You can defend yourself when it is time for you to give account for your life: how you thought, spoke, and acted. But for those of us that repent, we have Jesus the Lord as our mediator.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

🙏

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You leap to a conclusion that a baby in its mother's womb is not a person.

Damn straight. You would have to be under some some sort of demonic possession to think that this is a person.

You were once that weak and helpless. So does that mean you are not a person?

That was a very long time ago. What I am now is not what I was then. Things change. Once upon a time there was a blob of cells that was not a person, it grew and eventually became a person -- me -- and some day I shall die and cease to be a person again. As the Bible says, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Every person in history was once not a person, and shall return to not being a person.

Or, at what time did you become a person?

It was a gradual process, in the same way that a pile of raw materials (timber, bricks, plaster, paint) will become a house and then a home. This is not a house even if it may become one eventually. This is not an oak tree.

There is no absolute point where a fetus becomes a baby, but I think a reasonable legal fiction is the moment the newborn takes its first breath. I am even satisfied that we offer the unborn fetus protection as an honorary person during the third-trimester, provided the mother -- a real, actual person -- is not in any danger.

What I do not accept under any circumstances is the Virtue Signalling Holier Than Thous who will sacrifice real, living actual people so that they can hypocritically and dishonestly pretend to care for fetuses which are already all but dead in the womb, or have no chance of survival.

Actual people are more important than fetuses which are at best only a potential person, and often are not even that, if the fetus has no chance of survival.