all 27 comments

[–]ID10T 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

u/ActuallyNot thinks your grandma should freeze to death if there's a power outage. How dare you want your granny to be warm in sub zero temperatures. HOW DARE YOU!!!

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Global warming was killing 100-200 thousand people per year back in 2000. That will have accelerated considerably.

[–]ID10T 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

But how many will global cooling kill? Many many more! Warm the planet harder daddy!

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

None. There's no global cooling.

[–]ID10T 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks to us! And thank you for doing your part to ensure there's no global cooling. Eating and farting really helps.

[–]xoenix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Aww, cute. You found a graph from a well known source of climate misinformation.

It's almost as if you believe that shit, and moreover expect other people to.

Do you want to go through with me what I can see is wrong with it at first glance?

In 2000, most of the deaths attributable to the anthropogenic part of climate change died of malnutrition, which your little Lomborg doesn't include in his graph. Most of the remainder died of Diarrhoea, caused by water quality, mostly from flooding. Lomborg doesn't appear to have included those in his little graph. It's like he counted drowning in floods only.

The paper that did a count for 2000 was very high profile, and published in Nature.

Lomborg has read it. His misinformation isn't accidental. He knows he's lying. That's what you get when the most profitable industry in the world sees a risk from people having correct information. You see people who are paid to spread misinformation.

[–]xoenix 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

deaths attributable to the anthropogenic part of climate change

Nobody calling themselves a scientist has any business making those estimates. It's pure grift.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's an important thing to estimate, because it's an important cost of global warming.

That's why scientists do it.

[–]xoenix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"It's important to know how many people on the other side of the world died because I sneezed yesterday." No it's not. Nobody can determine that.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I linked to the paper that described the methodology to estimate the deaths from the anthropogenic part of climate change, so they can and did make an estimate.

If you think it can't be determined, let me know specifically what is wrong with the calculation in the paper.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make about sneezing.

[–]xoenix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you think it can't be determined, let me know specifically what is wrong with the calculation in the paper.

Can anyone test that calculation? No. Climate is a chaotic system, these cultists cannot attribute deaths to the alleged AGW caused by industrialization. Of course they also can't determine how many more were saved by industrialization, but they don't even try.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Can anyone test that calculation?

Sure, you could do a better one now, because regional climate change is more accurately modelled for smaller regions that it could be 20 years ago.


Patz et al. did it once. Someone can do it again.

Climate is a chaotic system, these cultists cannot attribute deaths to the alleged AGW caused by industrialization.

Sure you can. You look at the increase in those events that kill people that occur in a anthropogenically forced climate, compared to a naturally forced one.

Of course they also can't determine how many more were saved by industrialization, but they don't even try.

That would be a different paper and a different field. Claiming that science is faulty because they didn't study everything is pretty fucking stupid.

[–]Ferretman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Credible cites would be handy.

Comparison of how many were killed by cold would also be of note.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Credible cites would be handy.

Impact of regional climate change on human health, Patz et al. NATURE (2005)

Comparison of how many were killed by cold would also be of note.

This is the extra killed by the anthropogenic part of climate change. The comparison would be those lives saved by the anthropogenic part of climate change, not those killed by cold.

[–]hfxB0oyA 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

[–]HiddenFox 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I got two heat pumps this summer and they have already saved me a lot of money.

That being said I still have my oil furnace ready and waiting. (Where I live you must have a backup heating option as the temperature can dip below the operational working temperature of a heat pump. I think mine is rated for -18c.)

Also I have a generator that can run my whole home including both pumps.

The efficiency of these pumps is unreal and I have no issue with incentivizing them as they can really save people money and help the environment. To me this is how green tech SHOULD work. It should focus on saving you money and helping the environment is just a side effect.

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How much did those heat pumps cost you? A quick look online showed me prices in the thousands, per unit, up front. I don't see how you could have already saved money. A big investment like that could take years before you even break even, assuming electricity prices remain unchanged. How exactly do you calculate your savings?

The wood stoves use a free renewable energy source: wood. For my little stove that heats my workshop, I burn sticks I find on the ground. That fuel doesn't cost any money at all, and it gives me a little exercise to gather it.

[–]HiddenFox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The province of PEI was offering a 10 year, 0% loan for heat pumps and electrical upgrades needed for the installs up to $35 000. The program was eligible to any home owner regardless of income as long as it was your primary residence. (PEI has since ended the program this summer as it ran out of money. However, they are working on a new one which is expected to have about the same parameters. They are just waiting for funding. I assume this is coming from the carbon tax?)

My total bill was ~$13,000 after tax and rebates. That was for two heat pumps plus an electrical panel upgrade (200amps for $3000). The province paid the bills direct and I now have a loan with them.

It works out to $1300/year or about $110/month payment. My electrical bill for November went from ~$160 (2022) to ~ $240 (2023) so around $80 increase. Bringing my total cost increase for the month to $190.

On the oil side of things, at minimum I would have burned 1/2 a tank of oil for November. My tank holds ~1100 liters so I'm looking at 550L x $1.48/L (as of Dec 7th) which would work out to $814. And in all honesty, I'm being generous with the 1/2 tank. I have a 6 bedroom, 2 story home built in 1946. Although I have modernized my home with 3 pane windows, reflective insolation and a few other upgrades it's still a beast to heat. Last year I was getting fill ups every 4 weeks ranging from $1500 - $1800. We had 5 fills last year and our total bill was north of $8000 for the whole season.

I'm very curios to see what my electrical bill will be in the middle of winter but I can't see it even coming close to where the oil was. While it's hard to get exact numbers I feel I'm up or at least even as I had the pumps installed late July. We did use them for some air conditioning but they were more efficient then our old plug in unit and our power bill dropped slightly in August and September. October was about par for electrical costs.

A few notes:

Oil is a very expensive way to heat but one of the few real and best options in Atlantic Canada. If we had access to natural gas the numbers would be a lot closer.

For reference, 2 Years ago I had to replace my oil furnace and tank as both were at the 20 year mark. The steel oil tank was a mandatory replacement and I wanted a reliable furnace so I replaced it as well. The furnace was $4000 and the tank $3000 installed. The furnace is one of the most efficient on the market.

I hope this helps. I'll be glad to give an update in May sometime. I'm expecting to be ahead by a minimum of $4000 this year over last for heating costs. (Including air conditioning.)

[–]In-the-clouds[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You gave a detailed explanation and that could help people decide if this is the way to go.

I see that you went into debt for this system. That is a deal-breaker for me, as I refuse to put myself in debt. Even God says in his word: Owe no man anything, except to love him. So, I would discourage anyone from making himself a slave to a financial obligation, or from putting himself in debt to anyone. You took on a loan that you are legally required to pay back and you will not be free until your debt is paid.

[–]HiddenFox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You gave a detailed explanation and that could help people decide if this is the way to go.

Thank you, that was my hope. I think a real life experience can help people. I also believe in this technology as it's effective and can save money.

I 99% agree with about debt but I make a distinction between consumer debt and necessity debt.

Consumer debit is one of the worst things in our society. Credit cards and the like. For most it should be avoided at all costs. I do have a credit card but in the 15 years I've been married we have never missed paying it off each month. A lot of people don't have that discipline and fall for the trap.

However, I do believe in debt for a home, a car and an education as they are a necessity in this day and age. All these things must be reasonable and useful though. Going 100K into debt for a useless "basket weaving" education is ridiculous. Going 20K into debt to be an electrician is worth it in my opinion.

Going back to the heat pump loan, I took this on for two reasons. First, I 100% could pay it off with the stroke of a pen. I have the money and was planning to use it for this purpose when the program was suggested to me. Second, the 0% interest. If it had been even .5% I would have passed. Given both these reasons I don't see the harm.

[–]hfxB0oyA 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, but where I live, the power grid is fair to middling at best. Once everyone's dependent on electric for their primary heating, I get a knot on my stomach about the stability of our underlying infrastructure. I will likely end up getting one installed, but I'm going to keep my oil furnace and firewood stacked for the fireplace to boot.

[–]MagicMike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Global warming is one of the greatest hoaxes ever played on humanity.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good hoax. How did they warm the globe?

[–]MagicMike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Simple. Earth goes through cycles and is warming. Tell the fools that we caused it and jackpot!