Trans Pastor says Bible supports transgender baptism because Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch

submitted by johnsmith315 from youtube.com

all 15 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Problem one, eunuchs aren't trans, the concept is totally different.

Problem two, baptism isn't about "affirming personhood"

Problem three, I don't think at any point anyone has called into question about whether trans people or gay people or whatever LGBT category you want to bring up are "excluded from baptism" since baptism is for anyone who believes, and Christianity doesn't say that sinners can't be baptized, quite the opposite.

The problem there is that Christianity teaches that certain behaviors are sinful. And while it doesn't exactly cover anything like the modern idea of trans identity, well,

"A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 22:5"

Trying to claim the bible is LGBTQ inclusive is pretty hard when it tells you to stone LGBTQIA.

Though I guess the modern interpretation would be that good was talking about canabis.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 22:5"

Sure, but the Pentateuch is full of old laws that modern Christians don't follow. Purity laws, prohibitions against mixing, inexplicable stuff. Don't blend fabrics, don't plant different seeds together, don't use multiple kinds of animals when you plow, don't crossbreed your livestock, etc. Don't touch pigs or eat shellfish. Y'know.

The Christian belief is that Jesus replaced the Covenant of Law with the Covenant of Grace, thus obsoleting/fulfilling all the weird Deuteronomy commands.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sure. But it's pretty cloudy is it not Nobody is expecting you to follow the Jewish law in christian circles but everyone will agree stuff like murder is a sin, which is part of the Jewish law.

I don't really care if gay people don't want to follow the law and be gay or even be christian and gay, plenty of divorced people say their are christians as well, plenty of adulterers, the only issue I take is if they try to claim that such a things are supported by the bible when they very clearly are not.

I think gay people have this issue where they frame same sex friendships as romantic when they really are not. So they see David and Jonathan embrace and think gay, even though both q these men had harems and David even had some guy killed so he could fuck his wife after he caught a glimpse of her bathing. You know, typical gay behavior.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think gay people have this issue where they frame same sex friendships as romantic when they really are not. So they see David and Jonathan embrace and think gay, even though both q these men had harems and David even had some guy killed so he could fuck his wife after he caught a glimpse of her bathing. You know, typical gay behavior.

Well, there was no concept of "gay" in ancient times. No concept of sexual orientation. The widespread cultural idea was that every man was expected to have one or more wives and bear as many children as possible, and if after that he still had the desire and energy to do stuff with men, well, more power to him.

It's probably impossible to definitively say whether the author(s) of 1 Samuel intended to portray David and Jonathan's relationship as sexual; some scholars believe the original Hebrew carries many erotic undertones and others don't. It's probably equally impossible to definitively say whether Jonathan was based on a real person or just a legend, and if he's just a legend, arguing about his sexuality seems... weird.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

and if after that he still had the desire and energy to do stuff with men, well, more power to him

That was certainly not the attitude portrayed towards homosexual sex in the Bible. The attitude is more like "if you find anyone having gay sex execute them".

Any explicit references of homosexual sexual behavior in the bible are also associated with rape gangs essentially. Sodom is one. Another one in the book of judges describing a group of young q wanderers who would go around and rape people men and women alike.

It also seems silly to bring up the mythical status of the bible in any sort of religious argument. Clearly the religious significance of the Bible and how it's interpreted is irrelevant to the historical accuracy of it. Imagine being a retarded atheist going into a church and arguing that the Bible isn't true. Wrong audience.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It also seems silly to bring up the mythical status of the bible in any sort of religious argument. Clearly the religious significance of the Bible and how it's interpreted is irrelevant to the historical accuracy of it. Imagine being a retarded atheist going into a church and arguing that the Bible isn't true. Wrong audience.

Well, that's the thing, though - it's really only American Evangelical Fundamentalists who believe that every word of the Bible is the literal word of God, and that if it's in the Bible, it happened.

Other denominations see the Bible as more of a tool - as God saying "Here are texts to help strengthen the bond between you and me." So God wants us to see that somewhere around 600 BCE, these were the rules of the Israeli temple. And God wants us to see that a little bit later than that, the Israelis were saying "We are writing down our oral traditions about King David."

And if God is telling you both "The Israeli temple found gay sex so impure they'd kill you" and "The Israeli people had an oral tradition about the deep and immutable love between two men," well, there are spiritual messages there. And it's on you to understand what God is telling you.

People who grew up immersed in American Evangelical Fundamentalism tend to forget that that's the minority view on how to be a Christian and worship God. Like, Evangelicals say "Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a dish of lentils, and that is what happened." Every other denomination says "Okay, obviously this story is an allegory, probably for one tribe striking up a deal with another over food relief and land rights."

[–]iamonlyoneman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's amazing. Every part of that sentence is wrong.

[–]RandumbZer0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A work of Fiction written by 88 different people that doesn't support anything but the control of people thru lies, kind of like those who wouldn't even exist without greedy doctors & elective surgeries.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My mind just shuts down whenever I hear a trans person talking about God. You're directly challenging the bible by saying that there is more than one sex/gender. Any respectable church would welcome you, but qualify it with "hate the sin, love the sinner." They'd just pray you found a cure or came to your senses.

[–]carn0ld03 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Talk about grasping at straws to justify their crypto-Satanism.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

require all trans to actually be altered

sounds like something that would scare off most of the attention whore types