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[–]SoCo 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

I remember when they falsely declared Stage 3 clinical trials completed, but they weren't. They had just pressured the regulators to okay bypassing stage 3 clinical trials due to emergency authorization.

They lied to us and told us that there was no need for full Stage 3 long term safety clinical trials, because there were so many participants....yet no amount of people can make up for the time part of long term testing; that was always a dangerous deception.

They silently continued actual (accelerated) Stage 3 clinical trials, which were scheduled to end a couple months ago (and did). Yet the results were bad almost immediately, so they declared it inhumane to use actual double blind studies as cover, and un-blinded the trial, botching the whole thing, and silently finished up last December without publishing the results.

The results, still, were very bad, but you can only find studies referencing the results, not the results themselves.

I was lied to and will be lucky to live another year due to the damages.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

They had just pressured the regulators to okay bypassing stage 3 clinical trials due to emergency authorization.

Nope. They've done stage 3 trials:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

[–]SoCo 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Wrong

Pfizer's Stage 3 clinical trial technically has still not completed yet (and never will)!

See your own source:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

Estimated Study Completion Date : February 24, 2023

...yet actually, they gave up and simply didn't finish it, they only reported on efficiency, which is not really part of phase 3 clinical trials:

Actual Primary Completion Date : March 5, 2021

The link that got me perma-banned from r/Science...

Johns Hopkins University's comparison of standard versus Accelerated Vaccine approval schedules (content has been changed in last year, big surprise):

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline

As I mentioned, Moderna's phase 3 clinical trial had just finally actually completed in December 2022, despite questionable disregard for all scientific controls.

Like Pfizer's criminally deceptive declaration you posted of "concluding" (ie scrapping the regulatory need to complete before public use) for their Phase 3 long term safety testing clinical trials, we were also lied to and told Modern's Phase 3 safety testing was completed in late 2020, as well.

Yet, as you see, neither were completed yet!

At that time, the FDA has simply declared they had shown enough to bypass the completion of phase 3 clinical trials, on an emergency basis. No amount of test subjects can replace the 'time' part of long term safety testing. It is well known that many issues wont present themselves until a year or two later.

Pfiser's press release that you linked, is a fine example of deceptive fraud.

Their fraudulently deceptive press release about safety testing results, focuses on "efficiency," yet you don't get to phase 3 clinical trials without first proving efficiency, as phase 3 safety testing is too risky, if it isn't going to help anyways.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Wrong

Pfizer's Stage 3 clinical trial technically has still not completed yet (and never will)!

Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) has been achieved

See your own source:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

Pfizer is the first link. That one is Astrazeneca.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

That's stage one clinical trials and somewhat stage two (which is also safety).

Long term safety is stage 3.

The safety data "milestone" they are deceptively referring to, is the FDA's emergency side stepping of stage 2 and 3 clinical trials before using the vaccines.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The safety data "milestone" they are deceptively referring to, is the FDA's emergency side stepping of stage 2 and 3 clinical trials before using the vaccines.

Nope. They're talking about this:

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

37,000 participants. Your phase 2 trials are 50 or 100 people. This is phase 3. Randomised, controlled, larger numbers.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Phase 3 doesn't need a ton of people, but 100 seems quite small. More people doesn't help it complete faster. It is long term safety and numbers can't make up for time. Thinking it can, is the deception.

Unfortunately, Moderna UN-randomised/controlled their phase 3 when the results started going into the shitter right away.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

More people doesn't help it complete faster.

No. More people shows that it's phase 3 and not phase 2.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No one here had ever mentioned phase 2, but we were specifically citing phase 3, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Under the accelerated safety approval plan, phase 2 and phase 3 are done concurrently (ie at the same time).

Safety testing is about safety, and only a very small amount about efficiency. If you think long safety testing requirements are all about efficiency, then you've fell for the low-effort misdirection that the public seems to get suckered by every time.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)