Covid is still a hoax, people.

submitted by mongre from self.conspiracy

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[–]GConly 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/dtp/statement112002/en/

Analysis of the WHO-sponsored studies is now complete. All the studies show reduced mortality rates in the children vaccinated with all of the vaccines. In particular, the studies showed no negative effect of DTP vaccination and no difference was found between males and females.

The Committee concluded that the evidence is sufficient to reject the hypothesis for an increased non-specific mortality following vaccination.

You're also not taking into account the lives saved by not getting these diseases. For example, mortality from diphtheria is about 20% in the under fives.

So the vaccination is nowhere near as dangerous as the disease

[–]LarrySwinger2 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have serious doubts about the reliability of WHO-sponsored studies, but even if it is reliable: those researchers simply came to a different conclusion, but that doesn't do anything to address the findings of the paper I linked to. You cited a paper from 2000, while I cited one from 2017. We know more now, so the 2017 one is much more relevant.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It doesn't stop the mortality from diphtheria alone. If that gets loose into an unvaccinated population you'll lose a sizeable chunk of your kids.

I think you don't seem to understand that there's a mass of people not dying because of the vaccines. The paper you used mentioned mortality was 500/1000 in 1978.

If you were to look at mortality in a vaccinated Vs totally unvaccinated population with unchecked disease you'd be shocked. For example, measles has a mortality of about 1/300 in children, and virtually everyone catches it as a child in non vaccinated areas (R17).

I have a few observations on that paper as well. It didn't look at other parenting issues. Particularly bottle-feeding is linked to higher mortality from infections, you see it more in urban areas where people will have easier access to medical clinics and vaccinations.

Such info is absent from it.

[–]LarrySwinger2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn't stop the mortality from diphtheria alone. If that gets loose into an unvaccinated population you'll lose a sizeable chunk of your kids.

I'd just like to respond to the info you included before the edit. You mentioned a mortality rate of up to 20%. It should be noted that the most widely quoted number is 5-10%, and that this only pertains to cases, which are 100-200 per 100,000 persons.[1] If we give it the benefit of the doubt twice, that gives us 200 / 100,000 * 0.1 = 0.02% of the population who would die from diphtheria if there is no vaccination. Since you removed the details: I'm guessing you caught on to the misrepresentation?

I think you don't seem to understand that there's a mass of people not dying because of the vaccines. The paper you used mentioned mortality was 500/1000 in 1978.

I agree that that's a ridiculously high number, but there's nothing in there that suggests that's due to a lack of vaccinations; that's your assumption. It must have something to do with that particular community, because under-5 mortality rates in Guinea-Bissau by average were around 250/1000 at the time. [2] There was a general downward slope in this number over the decades, which could've been due to general development, and it isn't apparent that the introduction of vaccines brought the number down further. In fact, the introduction of a nation-wide vaccination program in 1986 coincides with an upward bump. I don't have the data on the specific community they studied, but if the under-5 mortality rate had been significantly reduced after the introduction of vaccines, I think the researchers would've noticed and not come to the conclusions they did. They found that the study found a 5-fold higher mortality rate as a result of DTP; that number accounts for deaths prevented by the vaccinations.

If you were to look at mortality in a vaccinated Vs totally unvaccinated population with unchecked disease you'd be shocked. For example, measles has a mortality of about 1/300 in children, and virtually everyone catches it as a child in non vaccinated areas (R17).

I'm not opposed to vaccinations in general. We have no disagreement about vaccines against the measles.

I have a few observations on that paper as well. It didn't look at other parenting issues. Particularly bottle-feeding is linked to higher mortality from infections, you see it more in urban areas where people will have easier access to medical clinics and vaccinations.

Such info is absent from it.

So bottle-feeding could've contributed to the mortality rate, but what's your point? I don't think that takes away from their conclusions regarding mortality due to DTP.

1: https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/782051-overview#a4 (disable Javascript to see the full article) 2: https://tradingeconomics.com/guinea-bissau/mortality-rate-under-5-per-1-000-wb-data.html