Anti-porn bills in eight states would force the likes of Apple and Samsung to automatically censor nude and sexually explicit content

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[–]Alienhunter 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

I agree but we can't completely ignore the issue of unlimited porn access by the youth.

We need to tread very carefully on this issue so that we don't end up crushing legitimate political speech as well. After all if I want to show the results of say, gender "affirmation" surgeries or the complications thereof through either pictures or text I prefer not to have to argue why such explicit descriptions don't qualify as "pornographic", I'd also rather not cede ground to the hyper religious prudes who consider a bad Harlequin dime novel to be XXX material that needs to be purged from society.

But I do think it's a problem when we have literal pre-teens just starting to go through puberty to be able to have unlimited free private access to extreme hardcore pornography of all types. I mean, I did when I was a kid, it wasn't healthy. But we didn't have smart phones back then and it still took some doing.

These days I think we do need to have a real discussion about how easy it is for kids to access porn and what we should do as a society to address that. And I do think that means we need to find some kind of restriction on it, but it's a complicated problem. We've got to find a balance between the extreme prudish censorsial types and the people on the other side who claim it's no issue publicly but then actively target kids via the internet.

Rule 34 is a great example of this. Some kid wants to search their favorite TV show or something, there is porn of it, and they'll find it, now much of that shit is basically horny teenagers doing what horny teenagers are going to do, but a lot of it is also made by adults to appeal to kids specifically. And it's well documented that pedophiles will use such materials to "desensitize" kids to the "wrestling" before they actually predate them .

The real question going forward is a tough one. We need a strong definition of pornography, and a smart way to limit it's access to children. I think the simplist solution now would be to simply ban children from using smartphones before they are 18. That won't totally fix the problem. And it will create new problems. But the entire issue is one I think where we do have to seriously consider action.

This is the sort of territory where we can't really get good scientific data on the scope of the problem. The research necessary to gain that knowledge would be unethical in practice, normies would shun it and cede the territory to predatory types and further exasperate the problem. See the John Money situation for a prime historical example.

[–]Musky 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

But I do think it's a problem when we have literal pre-teens just starting to go through puberty to be able to have unlimited free private access to extreme hardcore pornography of all types. I mean, I did when I was a kid, it wasn't healthy. But we didn't have smart phones back then and it still took some doing.

How wasn't it healthy? In my day there wasn't hardcore porn available, and I don't see the younger generations with issues we didn't have.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

They are having a real hard time forming meaningful relationships. Record numbers of people are single into late adulthood.

[–]Musky 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Are we sure that's from porn? I'd really hate to ban porn only to find out it didn't change anything because I feel the people who would benefit most from a ban on pornography is pornographers. It's so ubiquitous these days. There's no need to buy girlie mags, visit adult video stores, or ever pay for porn. And if they get the genie back in the bottle, they're going to know better than to ever let it out again.

I suspect a driving force behind many relationships in older times was boredom. You found someone to spend your time with because there wasn't anything else to do and you were lonely. The internet changed that, and not specifically porn.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also younger people have a LOT more responsibilities than their grandparents did. Along with what we discussed yesterday, even worse is the schools. Schools right now think "more homework" is going to magically solve our education "crisis" (that only exists in the inner-city), so they just keep giving more and more of it and kids can barely keep up. Even some elementary schoolers spend literally all their time doing homework now. Part of it is driven by the elite educators wanting to compete with China's totally-not-manipulated test scores. Trying to get our overall average up to China's top 0.1% is simply unrealistic, but they trust China to be honest. China is also notorious for being way too harsh about education anyway.

[–]Alienhunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I basically agree. I think there's a lot of truth to this. You can Lazer focus on porn as the sole problem but you'll miss the bug picture.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And most of them are probably incels. There's so much bashing on men right now that even straight women are forcing themselves to become lesbians. And women are glorified to the point where they can do no wrong. So they get to sleep around with Chad and the rest of the guys have slim pickings. It's not as bad as incels think but I definitely see where they're coming from, a lot of women won't love a man if he isn't good enough for them, because men bad blah blah blah. And they're being raised to be spoiled brats who only care about themselves and don't know how to love others, especially men because muh patriarchy. Men are only an asset in their eyes.

I don't see this very often, but it makes sense that it would follow from the "men bad" attitude in hyperwoke areas full of feminazis. You have all these feminazis saying "we should just get rid of men because they suck and they're no longer necessary", so obviously they're not going to hang around a man unless they have a really compelling reason to.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they're afraid of the unknown.

They think every single person must be in a marriage with a man working 9-5, a housewife, and 2.5 kids, or all of civilization will crumble. Even within that context, bringing "unusual" elements in is unacceptable to them. Everyone is a little afraid of the unknown. But what really triggers it for them is the fact that there's an entire hyperwoke rainbow cult promoted by every major media corporation trying to take over the world and push an agenda on kids from the time they're infants. That there's a conspiracy to go along with it is in their minds proof that it's evil, so they will push back, hard.

I don't know if porn is healthy but the situation isn't like they think it is. What's questionable what makes them want to look at the porn, not that they are looking at it. It's probably a bigger deal if they already have a relationship with someone who doesn't approve of it, because it could be adulterous.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Mostly opportunity cost.

[–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You mean jerking off too much? You don't need porn for that.

[–]Alienhunter 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Sure, that's part of it.

The problem is twofold. One is the opportunity cost. That's most of it. If you can get sexually satisfied on a whim via your phone you won't be as driven to seek out a real relationship. Which tends to be less healthy for people in the long run.

The other issue is it can give people very unrealistic expectations about what sex actually is and leave them disappointed with the real thing. Since rarely is sex as "exciting" as whatever hardcore porn makes it out to be.

This isn't entirely a "porn bad" position. The hardcore righwing religious types see it like heroin or something. But the analogy isn't totally off, it's more like pot.

It's not that bad if you do it sometimes in moderation. It is bad if you decide it's the shit and you do it to the exclusion of all else.

At the risk of alienating the youth I'll go compare it to video games. I don't think you're gonna go shoot up the school if you play COD all the time. But you are definitely missing out on life if you spend 12 hours a day playing COD.

[–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree with your first point, although as I was just mentioning to Canbot, I don't think it's just porn, but the internet as a whole that allows people an easy replacement for personal connections. I.e. Instead of talking to my Saidit buds, I could put effort into maintaining a real life friendship.

The other issue is it can give people very unrealistic expectations about what sex actually is and leave them disappointed with the real thing.

You know what that makes me think of, drugs. The depiction of drugs in media is often wildly exaggerated. I was really disappointed the first time I got high. I had expected more. Still enjoy pot though.

Sex wasn't the life changing thing I thought it would be either. I had unrealistic expectations without porn. Not that it wasn't as exciting, but I thought something would literally change, drastically, like before there was only dark and now there would be light. Some Aha! moment. I still enjoy sex though too.

Since rarely is sex as "exciting" as whatever hardcore porn makes it out to be.

I don't mean to brag, but ... I never had that issue.

At the risk of alienating the youth I'll go compare it to video games.... But you are definitely missing out on life if you spend 12 hours a day playing COD.

Do kids not play video games anymore? I used to play video games for hours on end. I still do, but I used to also. I don't do it to the exclusion of all else, but I think it's fine if kids go through a phase in their life where that's what they do. Eventually you age out of it.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most people don't have the insight you do. They are ignorant and even afraid of everyone who isn't just like themselves. So when dealing with others they want to either demonize them or try to mold them to be like they are. Since they are always right they don't see the problem with using force to accomplish this.

[–]Musky 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aww, thanks bro <3

[–]Ehhhhhh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It's called parenting. Programs already exist to limit websites that parents can utilize.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

They don't work.

I agree good parenting solves a lot of it. But your kids are still going to have to deal with kids who don't have good parenting.

I don't think it's gonna hurt a kid to see a porno once or twice. The real danger is in the private two way communicative nature of the smart device. Your kid can be groomed remotely. Happens all the time. Teen unhappy with their life and parents as teens often are some online person "understands" them and offers them a place to stay. Kid runs away and gets sexually abused or sex trafficked somewhere.

[–]Ehhhhhh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Enforce the existing laws. Encourage better parenting.

If kids get trafficked, then the authorities should do a better job of stopping them. There are already laws against grooming, rape, kidnapping and trafficking. However there was one family in.. Texas (I think. Will have to go find the article again). The father gave the police / fbi the necessary info. He himself had to track them down and rescue his daughter.

The problem is that the authorities are largely corrupt or incompetent. Reform is needed. Heck, recently in another state there was a cop arrested for grooming and raping a girl who was a victim already. Then there was another who was on a sex related task force and was hosting pedo shit. Those examples are not uncommon, unfortunately.

So, no thanks. We do not need additional laws pushed down from degenerate, incompetent govt.

We need real reform along with enforcement and quality parenting.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Better enforcement and better parenting are of course important parts of this but part of the problem is that the current laws were created at a time when we couldn't really imagine the smartphone and so are inadequate for the modern world.

There's also the problem of simply the viability of enforcement. Again we will go with the China example. Porn is banned there, you can just go through a VPN and get it anyway.

We can't enforce things that we can't see and a lot of this stuff happens in private so that the damage is already done long before anyone in a position of authority is even alerted to the issue. This is the same problem with parenting. Most parents cave and get their kids smart phones anyway and once you do that the kid is vulnerable and can easily hide whatever they want from you.

I think this is only going to get worse. The larger social ramifications exceeds the realm of simply good parenting. I think the least problematic solution at the current time is to put severe restrictions on minors usage of smartphones. Alternatively we could also put the onus of content delivery onto the websites themselves. But there would need to be real financial penalties and consequences for porn websites that allow children access and we can't allow them to claim ignorance lest kids do what you and I have always done and ticket the "Hell yeah I'm an adult" button when we wanna see tits.

[–]Ehhhhhh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So fucking what?

You think people should give up their privacy to make sure your kids don't see titties?

Be a parent.. Take their phone away and quit using devices as a babysitter. That's the solution.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Be a parent. Take their phone away. Kid gets a new phone from online friends who want to help them be their "authentic self".

[–]Ehhhhhh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Whatever, dude. It's not the govts responsibility to parent your child. Do better.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Society as a whole has a pointed interest in the next generation of children not being useless.

[–]Ehhhhhh 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. That's why we should eliminate the shitty brainwashing and indoctrination that goes on in schools first. That would stop any gay ass kids from giving them phones. Also, quit feeding them shit grown and processed so get rid or reform fda while at it.

Then again, with these lovely jabs there won't be too many in next gen.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Dude. Ban smartphones for everyone under 18? That's some communist-level authoritarianism. Stop listening to the media and thinking this culture battle is the only thing that matters in life. That's what they want, because they're planning to take over.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think such heavy handed authoritarian solutions become inevitable when problem are ignored long term and allowed to progress. Putting an age limit on the actual physical device is about the only solution to this issue that doesn't stray into a 1st amendment free speech and censorship issue as it specifically keeps the government out of the business of policing the online content itself which is where most of the problematic elements lie.

Ideally this is something that should be dealt with on a social level itself and not require legal intervention but the nature of tech companies now is very corporate and there is loads of money tied into it so much like with Tobacco companies there's entrenched profit motives that will eventually through normal capitalistic processes progress towards amoral or immoral solutions towards expanding their market.

We make it illegal to sell tobacco to kids or to advertise tobacco to them. Sounds good. We do the same for porn. Neither product in a small amount is going to end up causing an adverse effect on the individual or society. The issue is that unlimited access to either feeds into addictions before the child is mature enough to be responsible for their own actions or even have the mental capacity to understand the nature of addictions and the will and life experience to deal with it so it doesn't become a problem.

You can't download cigarettes through your phone. In this case it's not so much porn in and of itself though that is an issue, it's that the porn is addictive and it's being fed through a device that is also addictive and designed by any number of profit driven corporations that don't care about social harm caused so long as short term quarterly gains are met.

We are at the precipice of a new era of authoritarianism. It's rather ironic with the two party split as both sides realize this to be an issue and a threat to society, but both consider the opposing side to be at fault.

In reality they are both correct.

The end of the day though is you have to do something about the issue and be smart about it. Because if you don't, eventually someone else will.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Taking such extreme measures because of some perceived "threat to society" is literally socialism. The "emergency powers" excuse is what first allows almost every corrupt regime and dictator to rise to power. I think deep down your instincts just want a reason to have such sweet power over others. UNLIMITED POOOOWWWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Porn is not that bad, this is beyond ridiculous. It's a concern in the context of adultery or if that person is religious, not a literal poison that will cause all of civilization to crumble. Especially when you're going to set the age limit so high. I bet you also just hate technology and don't want kids to have it because you don't want them to have it. I guess your way of life is superior to everyone else's and you have the right to tell people what they should do and like.

Have you all lost your minds?! Am I the only one left who doesn't want a full-blown dictatorship with government monitoring and controlling every aspect of our lives? Who thinks everyone shouldn't have to be exactly like me or die? What is wrong with you all? What happened? Why did you all go off the rails? Please God help us.