all 6 comments

[–]StillLessons 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

More than just a challenge to their "interests", a hostile Ukraine is viewed as an existential threat. This is culturally a very deep chord in the Russian psyche. The western elite need to understand the level of unacceptable this represents to Russians (as the title notes, not just Putin) based on centuries of history.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Then they need to get over themselves just like every other country who isn't invading their neighbours has.

Why the Russian state is particularly seen as incapable of controlling their emotions, I don't know.

[–]StillLessons 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russia has been invaded many times. That's not an emotional statement; it's a fact. Napoleon and World War II have a very different flavor for Russians than they do for us.

Don't get me wrong. I do also feel for the Ukrainians. They are in the same position, having also been invaded many times. But when Russia expresses concern about invasion from the west, this is not just a hypothetical for them. Their cultural memory consists of the genuine misery of their country losing millions of people when enemies invade.

As I alluded to in a comment yesterday, a big part of this question is what is the character of the current Ukraine government? Given their connections to the Biden family and the documented, proven corruption entwined in that, Russia is not totally out to lunch to suggest that the current Ukraine government represents nothing more than a catspaw for the US/Davos/NATO structure. The fact that Ukraine is not part of NATO yet does not mean the actions of the Ukraine government with regards to the Donbass were not coordinated with US/Davos strategy. It would be naive to think they're not.

So what are Russia's options in that situation? Wait until the west manages to amass enough material, manpower, and momentum to launch a final putsch to clean out the Donbass rebels, who just happen to be mostly ethnic Russian civilians? Do you really not think that's what the long-term plans of Ukraine were?

Donbass Ukrainians and Russians are too tightly linked to think that Russia can sit back and watch while the Donbass gets steamrollered. I repeat, this goes beyond Putin. He is absolutely in line with opinion on the street in Russia with these actions.

In general (believe it or not), I'm in agreement with you about countries invading other countries. I know that's going to sound like it flies in the face of everything I've written for the past two days, but if we don't want invasions like this to happen, we need to understand the actual motivations for why they are happening.

The "Putin is a bad guy - the next Hitler" story serves us very badly in understanding why Russia is doing what it is doing.

Invading Ukraine is a crappy option for the Russian security state. You think they really wanted to do this? The power differential between Russia and Ukraine has been in place for the past 8 years. Why not before now? Russia has done a lot to avoid these actions before now because they have lost a shit ton of benefits by this action. This kind of action doesn't come without costs, and they did not want to pay those costs.

They did so because they don't feel like they have another option that is better. Every other strategy they have tried has led to the US/Davos cabal approaching their border more and more closely with greater and greater military threats.

If the US/Davos structure were clean and bright as snow, that would be one thing. But the level of corruption in the west is now just as extreme as the corruption in Russia itself. The oligarchies look diffferent, but they are both oligarchies repressing their own people on the street. We're looking at two mafias fighting over turf.

The Russian mafia at least can make the argument that this is their border. The US/Davos set wants to control this part of the world, especially the natural gas resource there. Their long-term goal is to buy and control both the eastern European countries and Russia itself, if they can make that happen. The Russians are the weaker party. They cannot afford to buy countries the way the US/Davos set can. Without the financial power the west has, the Russian mafia has fallen back on more crude means which are still available to them.

It's not pretty, but please stop thinking this is a one-sided conflict. It's not. The Russians and Putin didn't wake up one day and say, "We'll take Ukraine! Yeah, that sounds fun!" They are reacting in a very tightly constrained set of factors, and they did what they did in anger and from a weak position. This is an act of desperation, not an act of world domination.

[–]Tiwaking 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They should have told Biden that Putin was a friend of cornpop. And cornpop was a bad dude.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What about what the Ukraine wants?

This isn't just a piece of land, a buffer zone or a tactical position.

It's a country full of millions of people.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who gives a shit what they want? They're a bunch of foreigners on the other side of the planet. We owe them nothing.

The right question to ask is how can the American people benefit? And if we can't, we don't do it.