all 42 comments

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

While looking for a movie quote (see below), I came across a wonderful observation by St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274):

Omnes stulti, et deliberationes non utentes, omnia tentant.

"All idiots, and those who do not think, will try everything."

This is why we have the Darwin Awards.

This saying is used in Georges Lautner's hilarious 1963 crime comedy Les Tontons Flingueurs, literally "the gangster uncles" but called Monsieur Gangster in the USA. The script by the great Michel Audiard is terrific.

At one point Lino Ventura quotes St Thomas in French argot: «Les cons ça ose tout, c'est même à cela qu'on les reconnaît»: "Idiots will do anything -- that's how you recognize them". Ventura's line became part of French popular culture. You can even get T-shirts.

Note: "Con" is a crude word for "idiot", the kind of word that gets you a coup de poing in the gueule. "Con" can also mean "cunt", unchanged from Old French.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Speaking of Drunk Darwin Awards, Lee Mack's story of how he screwed up his first standup bit using that word has John Cleese rolling.

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Hilarious! From now on people will wonder why I snicker when they say "Kent" 😺

My favorite Darwin award is the Lake Accotink Bungee Jumper. Several years before the incident I had bicycled through Lake Accotink Park and I had admired that 70-foot-high railroad trestle. So I could totally picture the incident when I read about it.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Oof, what a way to go. And what a great site, I can foresee lots of fun browsing.

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Omnes stulti, et deliberationes non utentes, omnia tentant.

 

One of my martial arts instructors used to drill this into our heads. His version was: "You can't predict what an idiot will do." An untrained thug on the street will always be far more difficult to handle than the most skillful opponent you ever face in a sparring match, precisely because he has no idea what he's doing. No sane person would knowingly expose himself to as much damage as he will, but he'll do as much or more damage to you in return.

[–]sdl5 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Oh, yes!

My big brother actually advised me, upon his return from Marine training, to NOT get any formal defensive/arts training but to simply go with my well developed tomboy little sister moves- as nearly no male would think I was a threat or capable on first glance or could predict my ability to get loose of even the best grip instantly and then inflict damage on them from behind while getting out of reach shortly after, lol.

He "taught me" how to wrestle by age 9, and all it did was make it easier for me to predict his attempts to hold or pin me, slide lose like a an eel in a second, and beat him about the head after.

He realized in training that the advanced units relied on unpredictable and unexpected maneuvers on the fly, and were more like my natural defensive methods... and he then understood how I had bested a tall strong teen boy effortlessly:

His HS school friend got a badly bruised jaw from my headbutt then suffered severe, erm, damage, to his boy bits from my short legs pulled up then slammed out at him.

He was trying to "playfully" pin me to the grass slope when I was 11 and he was 17- shortly before my brother went off to the Marines- and about a nanosecond before my brother was going to knock him off me from the side I took him down myself.

I did not understand the choking gasping laughter from my big brother and their other friend for YEARS, I just knew Greg had lost his mind and I wanted nothing to do with him touching me again. He didn't, LOL.

Ironically, every time he saw my mother when she was around town visiting my grandmother for DECADES after we moved when I was 14 he asked after me.... I never thought to mention the incident to her, and she was confounded he even remembered ME of her other children let alone asked how I was doing, if married, any kids, where living. I made an impression I guess 🤦😳🙃

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Congrats, you beat up a guy who had a mild crush on you.

Either that or he thought of you as "one of the guys" until you beat him up. And now he probably gets scared-horny every time he remembers you 😁

[–]sdl5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well probably- but I was an incredibly late bloomer, and extremely young and physically undeveloped kid at 11, my long but usually messy blond hair being the only girly thing about me.

But based on my big brothers face as he reached for him just as I kicked upwards HE thought it was an inappropriate action towards his baby sister by his nearly adult age friend...

I was just surprised at how easy it was to get him to let go of my arms- having zero clue what I had done when I kicked him. Now of course ... 💁😶 but I do wonder what on earth caused him to do that after all but ignoring me for years up to that year. I was truly a child in mind and body still

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I made an impression I guess

Oh yes, in the literal sense 😱

[–]sdl5 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Part of adult girl me still feels bad about the kicking part of it...

But then the adult woman and Mom of girls me is squicked out to outraged that a tall fit attractive 17 year old nearly adult male thought pinning his buddy's 11 year old not even remotely developed kid sister down with his entire body on me while holding my arms above my head was a good idea. Let alone out of no where- I think treeforts were being debated and I was just sitting next to them listening in... Let ALONE right in front of said big brother!

He may have got off easy, considering my brothers face before he realized what kind of damage I had wrought...

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Part of adult girl me still feels bad about the kicking part of it...

You probably taught him an important lesson regarding appropriate behavior. Think of the many girls and women who benefitted from your action. In Robert de Boron's Merlin (1200), Gawain accidentally kills a damsel who tries to protect her lover from being decapitated by Gawain. Queen Guenevere sentences Gawain always to be of service to damsels in distress and he becomes known as "the knight of the damsels". But there are many portrayals of Gawain in Arthurian legend, some nicer than others. Merlin is one of the main sources for Thomas Mallory's Le Morte Darthur (1470).

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great story!

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Not sure I agree with this concept of 'stupid people'. Much of the time what we perceive as stupidity is someone acting out of motives we simply don't understand. So someone does something we wouldn't do, we don't know why he does it, so we call him stupid. If we better understood his circumstances and motivations, we would understand his actions are rational, for him.

That's not to say there aren't any genuinely stupid people out there, I just don't think they are the major destructive force in society. That destructive force would be: crapitalism.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This doesn't relate to the post or your comment at all. Are you familiar with Pat King? He had some involvement with the truckers' convoy and he can't talk much about that because of the status of his case but there's a lot of other stuff coming out about Trudeau, for one, that I'm hearing for the first time. May be old news to you but I thought I'd pass it on.

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I knew Trudeau had issues with young girls when he was teaching, but that was the first time I heard any details at all about it. I assumed he got grabby with the girls, but apparently it was considerably worse than that?

What they're doing to Pat King is horrible, but Canada is an authoritarian hellhole and he pissed off Emperor Trudeau, so I'm not at all surprised. I may or may not have some personal experience with house arrest, his description of assholes banging on your door at 4am brings back memories.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They didn't go into details on Trudeau, just that he got caught in flagrante delicto by the girl's father. King also said that he had interviewed Trudeau's stepbrother (or half brother), who said that Trudeau wasn't the same person he used to be, that "they" had something big they were holding over his head. Who knows whether it's true but it at least sounds like it could be.

Another thing the RCMP is doing is annoying King's neighbors by shining their big flashlights into their windows, in one case at about 1:30 a.m. But he had some positive news to report as well. When he was finally released, he had to come up with a $25,000 bond which of course he didn't have, but a Sikh community raised the money and paid it. Also when he was released, a police detective came up and said he was glad he was out because he didn't belong there. And while he was in, he was placed for about a month in the wing with alleged murderers awaiting trial. Fortunately, his cellmate (up for 2 murders) said his mother had fed the truckers and she told him to look out for King while he was in there. And one of the prison guards raised hell about him being put in that wing and he was subsequently moved to a regular ward.

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had a bout of insomnia last night and watched most of the video. The bit about the girl's dad catching them was new. And he says he has the docs to back that up, but is forbidden from sharing them. Free speech at work! That would be presumably Russian malinformation. I knew about Baby Doc Trudeau's brother's argument that he was being blackmailed. Well he is naturally a piece of shit, I don't know how much his blackmailers have to lean on him to get him to continue being a piece of shit.

The cops shining their flashlights into the neighbor's house is illegal. But it's the neighbors who would have to file a complaint with the police and prove that it happened, because police inquiries on this sort of subject invariably exonerate the police. Obviously the police investigating themselves always find they did nothing wrong.

But King clearly has some beliefs that make it easy for the Canadian deep state to target him. And he has a big mouth. By the time I was his age, I was more discreet. I think. But then I never had his reach, so maybe that's why he's a professional loudmouth, because that built him a following.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That thought crossed my mind as well, that you not only have to pick your fights but choose how you fight them. But I think there are some people who willingly become lightning rods because it's in their nature and they think it will rally others to their cause..

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good points.

A lot of times people act "stupidly" out of ignorance. The Powers That Be depend on wide-scale ignorance to stay in power.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Excerpt:

In 1976, a professor of economic history at the University of California, Berkeley published an essay outlining the fundamental laws of a force he perceived as humanity’s greatest existential threat: Stupidity.

Stupid people, Carlo M. Cipolla explained, share several identifying traits: they are abundant, they are irrational, and they cause problems for others without apparent benefit to themselves, thereby lowering society’s total well-being. There are no defenses against stupidity, argued the Italian-born professor, who died in 2000. The only way a society can avoid being crushed by the burden of its idiots is if the non-stupid work even harder to offset the losses of their stupid brethren.

Let’s take a look at Cipolla’s five basic laws of human stupidity (details at the link):

Law 1: Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

Law 2: The probability that a certain person be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

Law 3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

Law 4: Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.

Law 5: A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.


Related (where the link to this piece came from): Stupid People

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation... Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals...

These are part of the Dunning–Kruger effect. The best known part of D-K is that idiots overestimate their own knowledge and ability. But in addition, intelligent people tend to overestimate the knowledge and ability of others. Bernie was particularly bad at this — he threw words around like Democratic Socialism and Oligarchy without realizing that half his audience didn't know what he was talking about.

Bertrand Russell put this extremely well: "The problem with the world is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt".

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you would misquote Bertrand Russell - either that, or what I have in my quotes collection is wrong:

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves; wiser people are full of doubts. — Bertrand Russell

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I googled "Bertrand Russell cocksure" and found this at several sites:

The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.

I felt the first part was too wordy and abridged it. The meat is in the second part, so that's verbatim. I have no idea if there is an authenticated version. Both of our versions capture the meat.

My mother told me a hilarious Bertrand Russell story. I hope it's true. From memory:

When Bertrand Russell was a visiting professor at UC Berkeley he rented a small house for himself and his family. A young graduate student went there one day for an appointment. He rang the doorbell and Russell's grown daughter opened the door, stark naked. The student gulped and said "oh... my... God". She immediately replied "there is no God".

😺

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

That's wild! The kind of anecdotes I heard growing up were more along these lines: a little boy asked his mother if it was okay to say "rotterdam" and she said, "of course it is, why?" He replied, "Because sister stole my candy and I hope it rot 'er damn teeth out."

Eddie Izzard did a bit about Oscar Wilde supposedly coming up with some brilliant quip while going through Customs. Only in Izzard's re-enactment, Wilde doesn't think of the remark until he's already through Customs, so he keeps getting back in line so he can "spontaneously" use his zinger but keeps getting thwarted because they don't ask him the right question. It might be funnier if I could remember what the zinger was.

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It might be funnier if I could remember what the zinger was.

Possibly this one:

And the customs officer, just doing his job, said, “Have you anything to declare?” Oscar Wilde famously said, “Nothing but my genius.”

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's it!!

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

It seems the original version was slightly different: "The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I like the second part of Russell's quote, which I hadn't seen before:

Even those of the intelligent who believe that they have a nostrum are too individualistic to combine with other intelligent men from whom they differ on minor points.

Sounds like the fractured Left, substituting "leftists" for "men". I'm imagining Bill Cosby as Noah saying "right... what's a nostrum?" Something like a cubit, maybe?

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

substituting "leftists" for "men"

 

My face just went through stages.

😃 😈 🤐

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Dang, it's like that old game Telephone, where what the last person hears bears little resemblance to what the first person said. The Yeats quote doesn't seem to fit with the others, but then it's poetry and I think it resonates more:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Or we could go with the purported John Wayne quote:

Life is tough.

It's tougher if you're stupid.

Or Oscar Wilde, Lady Bracknell in The Importance of Being Earnest:

I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately, in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square.

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yep, that looks right though not as fun as some of the stuff that comes out of the game, this one just went from "no" to "yes" though the detour was entertaining.

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Oh! This just reminded me of when the Critical Role cast were playing rounds of narrative telephone. My favorite is Jester's Tall Tale.

Hmm, I don't know how funny they'll be if you don't know the people and the characters they play, though.

 

edit: no, on second thought, the best one has to be Widogast's Web of Words. Jester's Tall Tale is second.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

That's hilarious. I'd be like the last girl, fumbling for words. I don't know the people or characters but it was fun just listening to and watching them. Liam was a hoot.

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, Liam's great 😄 There was a moment when a more traditional but spontaneous game of telephone broke out during an actual game. The characters had fanned out to search an island when one of them noticed something. The hesitant thumbs-up at the end always makes me laugh.

 

Fan-comic form

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This has echoes of mass formation.

Why Stupidity Is More Dangerous Than Evil:

In a letter to his friends, family, and followers written while he awaited execution at Flossenbürg concentration camp for his role in the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt on Adolph Hitler, [Dietrich] Bonhoeffer detailed his thoughts on the root cause of the moral and intellectual infection that resulted in the Third Reich. His conclusion: It’s the stupidity, stupid.

Stupidity, according to Bonhoeffer, is a sociological problem. “It is a particular form of the impact of historical circumstances on human beings, a psychological concomitant of certain external conditions.” Bonhoeffer identified the cause of societal stupidity like this: “Every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or of a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. It would even seem that this is virtually a sociological-psychological law.”

People almost never see themselves as evil or as supporting evil things, but we’re generally too stupid to know the difference—further evidence of the supremacy of stupidity in causing human suffering, and the necessity to fight stupidity instead of evil.

According Bonhoeffer, you can’t fight stupidity with reason, facts, protests, or your fists, because, to the stupid, “Reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed… and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack.”

A few years after Bonhoeffer’s hanging and the fall of the Third Reich, Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron, eminent psychiatrist and president of the American Psychiatric Association, was enlisted to interview war criminals at Nuremberg to try to make sense of Nazi atrocities and ensure that nothing like the Holocaust ever happened again.

Shaken by the horror of Nazi Germany and by the potential for civilization-ending nuclear war, Cameron devoted his professional and intellectual life to fighting societal evil using the tools of psychiatry instead of religion.

Employing pioneering techniques at the cutting edge of the medical field, Cameron set out to break the lifelong thought patterns of his patients, who were mostly suffering from relatively minor mental health issues. At his research center at McGill University, Cameron drugged patients with powerful tranquilizers and paralytics that kept them either asleep or wide-awake-but-paralyzed for weeks straight. He performed “electric lobotomies” by zapping patients’ brains with nearly deadly jolts of electricity, over and over again. He fed them heroic doses of LSD and locked helmets on their heads equipped with speakers that played the same 10-second tape loop of their own voice at a deafening volume for weeks straight.

Whether he knew it or not is an open question, but Cameron’s work was funded by the CIA, who used the results of this program (and others like it) to “design a scientifically based system for extracting information from ‘resistant sources.’ In other words, torture.” Remember Abu Graib? That was rooted in Cameron’s ideas.

Was Cameron evil? He sure didn’t think so.

Cameron wasn’t “stupid” either, at least not in the way we usually think of the word. He didn’t develop his ideas about human behavior by passively accepting propaganda like some damn Nazi. He applied the academic rigors he’d developed at the most prestigious universities and medical schools in the free world to conclude that the solution to depression was strapping vulnerable people into torture helmets for weeks straight.

[–]sdl5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Notice that HE THOUGHT HE WAS FIGHTING NAZIISM TOO.....

Astounding and disturbing how today we are so thoroughly going through a jumbled DejaVu of the very worst of history and human behaviors from the 1920s to the 1960s... all at high speed.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sounds like some people have invested a lot of time and energy to learn how the worst worked so they could do it again but more efficiently. I'm not sure I agree completely with the conclusions of the two linked pieces. The greatest danger may be in thinking that we'll always be immune to the persuasions of evildoers just because we manage to be most of the time.

[–]sdl5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same same 😕

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Very apposite. Incidentally, Metaxas' biography (Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy) is a great read.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Added it to my wishlist.