Jimmy Dore Show: Here’s Why Cornel West Switched To Green Party In Presidential Campaign

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[–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't get it. Because of that white lady? Or because he knows damned well that the DNC won't put up with his shenanigans and he'll end up like Bernie?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Jimmy Dore is great

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

😮

[–]ageingrockstar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I'm an environmentalist. It's one of the few -isms I subscribe to because it's obvious to me that that the health of our natural environment and our urban environment is existentially important.

But while environmentalism is so important to me, I am not a supporter of 'Green' politics. I think it's a fraud and I think all Green parties, however 'pure' they might start out, are destined to quite quickly follow a path down to degeneracy, into support for crap like gender ideology and for warmongering (I give you the German Greens).

So, disclaimer, I don't actually don't know who Cornel West is and I haven't watched the interview because while I follow US politics somewhat, as a non US American this didn't clear the interest bar for me. But I'm commenting because I feel that any politician choosing to join a Green party is making a big mistake.

[–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I prefer conservationist to environmentalist. The latter has just gotten too much of a bad wrap because of so many entitled twats ruining a sensible argument for careful management of the planet as the most valuable resource we have.

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

The Green Party of the United States is quite different than Green Parties elsewhere in the world. We are a party of peace and have numerous statements advocating for peace in Ukraine and the end to proxy wars between nuclear powers.

[–]ageingrockstar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And here's another example of awfulness from a Green party, this time the Irish one :

"We are restricting freedom for the common good": Irish Green Party Senator Pauline O'Reilly says that her government's hate speech bill is about "restricting freedom," and censoring views on gender identity if those views create "discomfort."

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1669275401397456898

Where does the Green party of the US stand on hate speech laws like the one that already exists in Ireland and is now being made even more encompassing I wonder? I suspect there would already be some support in the US party for such laws to be introduced in the US too.

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The Green Party of the United States has no official connection with the other Green Parties around the world. Yes, the other Green Parties in the rest of the world are awful and Greens in the U.S. agree that they are awful. There may be a few exceptions, but I don't actually know.

If you're interested, do a little exploring here:

https://www.gp.org/

Cheers!

[–]ageingrockstar 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry, but from outside the US your party looks awful too. I don't see anything particularly special about it.

Looking at your platform on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity and relevant to the stance taken by the Irish Green Party senator I linked to above, here are some very concerning parts of your platform that line up with her stance (concerning parts in my italics) :

The Green Party recognizes the full civil rights of sexual and gender minorities. The existing civil rights act prohibits discriminating on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, age, and disability. We will work to add sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression to the existing civil rights act.

The Green Party will be inclusive of language in local, state and federal anti-discrimination law that ensures the rights of intersex individuals and prohibits discrimination based on gender identity, characteristics, and expression as well as on sex, gender, or sexual orientation. Gender critical or trans-exclusionary social theories such as the sex-based womens’ rights declaration are not recognized as radical inclusive feminism and will be opposed by the Green Party. We are opposed to non-consenting intersex genital surgery.

The Green Party affirms the right of all persons to self-determination with regard to gender identity and sex. We affirm the right of choosing non-binary and gender fluid identification. We therefore support the right of individuals to be free from coercion and involuntary assignment of gender or sex.

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry, but from outside the US your party looks awful too. I don't see anything particularly special about it.

If you'd like to come over here from whereever you live and help organize a better party than the Greens, which is a waaaay better party than the Democrats or Republicans, please have at it.

[–]ageingrockstar 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I won't support (or help build) any political party; I believe all political parties corrupt the democratic process

If you'd like to come over here from whereever you live

I'm in Australia. We have an awful Green party too. And I don't mean to be rude but the US is close to the last country in the world that I would consider moving to. I'm even reluctant to visit it (despite knowing it has some beautiful scenery and some great people).

[–]ageingrockstar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

We are a party of peace and have numerous statements advocating for peace in Ukraine and the end to proxy wars between nuclear powers.

I'm pleased to hear this and congratulate everyone who made those statements for peace.

However you should be aware that the German Greens, one of the oldest Green parties in the world (perhaps the oldest?), also started as a strongly pacifist party. And look at it now, they are the most aggressive supporters of NATO's proxy war on Ukraine across the political landscape in Germany. The pacifist old-guard got purged. How will you avoid that fate? I doubt that you will, sadly, because 'Green politics' is not a coherent political philosophy (while environmentalism is), and thus any Green party is ripe for being infiltrated and taken over.

[–]SusanJ 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

We are aware and we vehemently disagree with the German Greens.

Any organization can be taken over, but it's harder when it's grassroots. Our volunteers are quite outspoken about wanting peace. And other things that Europeans take for granted, like single payer health insurance, not going bankrupt because of getting sick or for wanting an education, etc.

[–]ageingrockstar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

but it's harder when it's grassroots

True. But it also makes for a more fractious party that many hard-headed political operators would suggest makes it harder to win and retain power.

But my main point is that I still think that Green politics lacks an underlying coherent political philosophy and this gives any Green party many large cracks that can, and I think will, eventually break it apart. For instance the example you give of 'single payer health insurance' is not necessarily coherent with environmentalism (while a good argument can be made for an anti expansionary war position being coherent).

I think a coherent political philosophy could have been built, ground up, from environmentalism. And I think environmentalism would have served as a very solid basis for such a philosophy. But Green politics hasn't gone down this road, instead it's brought in lots of other 'causes' without properly tying them together into a coherent frame-work. And I think that will be its undoing.

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

[–]ageingrockstar 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have my hippyish / mystic side too and the general interconnectedness of the universe can be a profound topic to dwell on, in the right context.

But throwing out a quote like that as some sort of pretence for intellectual coherence in your platform is laughable, and again, shows the weakness of Green politics as a philosophy. It's a grab-bag of things and after looking through your platform, while there would be some parts that I would be glad to have the party's support on, there are other parts that are highly problematic and that will lead to the ruination of the party.

[–]shatabee5 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love how West is going strong for the Black vote. Lol, Biden/Dems are probably running around with their hair on fire.

I've never had a strong feeling about reparations but, man, if this issue takes down the Democratic party, I'm on board. If reparations takes down the Dems, it will make the issue a lot easier to swallow for Trump supporters, too.

The oligarchs have made their bed. They take trillions and trillions of dollars. It's time to give money to someone other than the billionaires who least need it. Take the trillion dollar a year Pentagon budget and put it more equitably into the economy.

[–]SusanJ 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Great interview! Though I think that Cornel could actually win. Screw that 5% BS. I want 270 electoral votes! And if we can't do more than 5% with a great candidate like Cornel, in desperate times like these, when will we???

[–]risistill me 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Good question.

Again, if I ever start a company or a campaign (I won't), I'd hire you in a second. Sales, pr, hr (morale), whatever. You are a great team member.

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks, risi!💚 And I'm glad you're not going to start a campaign or something, after all this Green campaigning, I'm going to want a vacation in 2025:)

[–]risistill me 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I keep saying I'd hire you (which I would). But I don't want you to get your hopes up and quit your day job. I'm not starting a company, a library or a campaign, or any of the things for which I'd definitely hire you IF.

[–]shatabee5 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

West can finally create the ongoing movement that Obama and Bernie had but then destroyed the minute the elections were over.

This is what the oligarchs would object to.

[–]shatabee5 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ballot access, infrastructure and campaign experience.

[–]EddieC 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Direct Democracy > Indirect Democracy
 

[–]BlackhaloPurity Pony: Pусский бот 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was a damn good interview. Hedges coming with the deets.

[–]Maniak🥃😾[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Quick question for our resident expert, /u/SusanJ: any idea as to the risks of Hawkins pulling a DNC, again, and fucking everything up for the green party by taking over the nomination, again?

[–]genderslayer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Doubt Hawkins would run if Cornel West is already running. Besides, who would support him?

[–]SusanJ 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The only way Hawkins will win is if Cornel West supporters don't vote in the Green Party primary and Howie Hawkins supporters do. I really want to avoid that at all costs. This is why I'm encouraging people to register Green or join their Green Party and vote in the primary. To me, it makes more sense to invest energy is something forward looking, rather than vote in the Dem primary in the hopes that the DNC won't do what they always do and give the nod to their inner circle. In some states, getting enough people to register Green gets the Greens on the ballot, so it's a twofer:)

[–]Centaurea 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Can you give us an idea of how many Hawkins supporters there are? What percentage of the Green party membership, especially among those who are active?

[–]SusanJ 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I have no actual idea. Of the volunteers I work with, we are all excited about finally having a great candidate in Dr. West. That's my bubble maybe, but even among people who liked Howie in 2020 (and I did, but he wasn't pushing war back then) he's lost support.

But I still think it's safest to vote for what you want. And that includes the primary.

[–]Maniak🥃😾[S] 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

(so nice to be able to post Rumble links without having to manually approve the post afterwards \o/)

(fuck you YT. and you too Reddit)

[–]BlackhaloPurity Pony: Pусский бот 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Spez might really F things up for everyone. There is already a ton of pent-up inertia to move to the alternatives. Smells of hubris. I wonder if HRC is involved?

[–]MartiniPlease send olives! 🍸 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

more generally, I'd say it's a push from the duopoly to get reddit under control before truths start leaking out in advance of Biden's coronation.