TIL the founder of the Chinese Communist Party, Mao Zedong, was responsible for the deaths of over 65 million people, making him the most prolific killer of the 20th century.

submitted by aThievingStableboy from heritage.org

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]sodomytron 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

but i thought evil nazis were the totally worst thing evar?

[–]aThievingStableboy[S] 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (31 children)

caewtsg

[–]sodomytron 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (30 children)

that's right goy, demonize defense of your country and people for sake of a lie. ever look into how many times jews claimed 6 gorillion of their people were killed?

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

But I'm not German. . . It's not my country.

I'm American and Nazi Germany declared war on my country after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

[–]asterias 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Didn't American Jews declare war on Germany first?

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What does that even mean? Did some non-government Jewish groups hold a publicity stunt press conference or something?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I just don't know what you're talking about. Do you have a link to something -- ideally, something from a historian or even Wikipedia?

But, war is declared by governments. At that time, we did it through Congress. After that, we started doing it more and more through executive order. Hitler as executive of his country declared war on us.

And, yes, we were supplying the U.K. heavily. But still, declaring the war is a blunder -- maybe even a bigger one than opening up the Soviet front before the U.K. was defeated. I mean, seriously, educate me if you have the time and evidence, but it looks like Hitler had multiple opportunities to shift into a defensive stance, having already acquired "living space" for his people. (I understand oil might be another matter. Still don't declare war on the U.S. The U.S. public would have been it's finicky self).

[–]asterias 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Some events are mentioned here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_anti-Nazi_boycott#Events_in_the_United_States

I have seen other articles and videos (which I don't have handy at the moment) about American Jews and Jewish Mafia attacking political parties and gatherings in the USA with complete impunity. Judging from what happened with those organisations (American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress and B'nai B'rith) when they pressured various governments to ban political parties in Europe during the last decade, I can only imagine how provoking their moves would be back then.

War is officially declared by governments, but certain groups appear to exercise significant control over governments and even preoccupy government decisions.

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i appreciate you locating what you did.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

they did a BDS movement on germany. But did germany really feel the need to declare war on USA just because of that? I think Hitler was trying to make proactive moves, war would be inevitable so why not strike first. They were working on a wonderwaffen so he might have figured he'd have nukes eventually so it'd work out.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hitler sought peace with the US and UK at every turn (and the war was never popular among the citizens of these countries). Germany was dragged into the war due to its treaty with Japan, and the ABCD Line amounts to an act of war on the part of the US.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

hitler had a peace agreement with Russia, later invaded them. He probably correctly thought they'd break the agreement soon so why not attack first and have he advantage. He also needed oil, a major reason for the entire world war in the first place, Russia had it.

I like playing the board game Risk and I think it is true to life, you need to take a risk. Sometimes send your troops and attack a powerful opponent even if it spreads your troops thin. Hoping by your next turn you can regroup. Having a lot of land is valuable as it gets you more troops. Sometimes don't attack an opponent because you want them to be a buffer between you and another opponent that is more powerful.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All Jews worldwide united to declare war on Germany first, yes.

[–]sodomytron 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor

your history channel education makes americans look bad. you have a single dimensional, official narrative take on historical events

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

That's a just a bunch of name calling. I'm not stupid on purpose and willing to learn if you have the time (and if you don't have the time it's fine -- but in that case, why start the conversation?).

But random internet stranger (that's you) saying something without any proof (which you're not offering) just isn't going to teach me anything.

[–]Chipit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Well, I didn't believe it either until I started looking into it. I was shocked what I found.

FDR goaded the Japanese into attacking. He cut off their steel supply, which largely came from American scrap. Then he cut off their oil supply, which came from the Dutch East Indies. He boxed them into a corner without any way out. He empowered the "hate everyone" militarists and pulled the rug from out under the peace faction. If you have the time for it, this is a fantastic video on Japanese factional politics 1919-1945. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_iNUXhrfw

Admiral J.O. Richardson: The admiral said he was going to tell a story that the lieutenant could regard as a parable. "Assume", Richardson said, "you were the leader of the greatest nation in the world, and assume that you saw, in another hemisphere, the development of a power which you regarded, and with reasonable support, as a total threat to Western civilization as you knew it. Supposing, however, for various reasons, your conception of the danger was not shared by your constituents, your own people. And you saw the total destruction of western civilization in the hands of this adversary, and your detected in your own people, at the time, on the basis of everything they knew, a lack of appreciation of the problem. Assume you saw that the only salvation of Western civilization was to repel this particular power but that required you to enter a foreign war for which your people were not psychologically or militarily prepared. Assume that what was needed to galvanize your own people for a unified approach towards this basic danger to civilization was an incident in which your posture was clearly of passive non-aggression, and apparent unpreparedness; and the incident in question was a direct act of aggression which had no excuse or justification. Assume that you saw this potentiality developing on the horizon and it was the solution to the dilemma, as you saw it, of saving civilization and galvanizing your own people. It is conceivable, is it not, that you might be less disposed to create a situation in which there might be no doubt as to who struck the first blow"...."It's a fable. You just think about that fable as you study some of this material. And, it's conceivable that it might have some enlightening factors."

That about explains the United States allowing the Japanese to attack her. I recommend the book Infamy, written by a credible historian. He went and read every single piece of correspondence written about the investigation afterwards and concludes, yes the commanders of Pearl Harbor were hung out to dry and blamed so that FDR could have his war.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1656121.Infamy

[–]sodomytron 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

his war

what's remarkable is timely extended commentary shows that it was commonly known FDR was wanting war. i grew up a bit when i realized every generation has ppl who can see what's going on and they're usually ignored by dummies like u/theFriendlyDoomer. the reason i don't spoon feed them anymore (bless your heart) is they don't know not because they haven't found, but because they don't look. and they don't look because they actually don't care. and so doing all of their work to teach them is end in the end pointless. but others are lurking, so good on you for their sake

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yeah well you do a really shitty job of explaining your point of view, and actually are negative value, in that your shittiness drives people away. Maybe they could be convinced, but when you jump directly to the "ur stupid and it's pointless" part, that's counter-productive. Have you considered that your lack of success is directly due to your extremely poor persuasion skills?

[–]sodomytron 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

0 care. fire only

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate all of that. I'll try to check out the Toland book at some point.

[–]asterias 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And history repeats itself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project#History

The result was the threat of a Super-301 (complete stop of import based on section 301 of the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988) against everything related to TRON, including products from the companies selling computers running TRON OS variants. This led to many companies dropping TRON in fear to lose the possibility to export to the United States.[14] According to a report from The Wall Street Journal, from the point of view of the United States trade officials in the 80s and early 90s, the TRON project was seen as a plot brought up by the Japanese bureaucrats to "control the world" and a potential threat to American dominance in computer technology.

[–]sodomytron 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

sorry i don't spoon feed 30 years of search engines on

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If you don't want to provide any proof of anything, I don't know why you want to make this one of your hobbies, but to each his own.

The one thing you highlighted was me saying Germany declared war on the U.S. So you do not think Germany declared war on the U.S.? There is recorded evidence of Hitler's speech. We would have focused all our energy on Japan if Hitler hadn't declared war. Churchill himself was glad Hitler did, because the U.S. might have stopped supplying as much to the U.K. (that's in the Wikipedia article above).

If we fought Japan for several years, perhaps Germany would have won one of the two fronts. In either case, they would probably be able to shift into a better defensive stance. I think the U.S. public could then have been convinced it was not worth it. . .

[–]Chipit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The US was waging an undeclared war against Germany in the Atlantic. US ships followed German merchant ships from Mexico, broadcasting their position to the British navy. My own grandfather was in the Neutrality Patrol in the Atlantic, where they attacked German naval vessels. The best-known incident was that of the Reuben James, where the US Navy ship positioned itself between the location of a known wolf pack and a convoy packed with war materiel headed for Britain. USS Kearny dropped depth charges on German U-boats while at peace. President Roosevelt announced his infamous "shoot-on-sight" order: that German U-boat "very presence in any waters which America deems vital to its defense constitutes an attack. In the waters which we deem necessary for our defense, American naval vessels and American planes will no longer wait until Axis submarines lurking under the water, or Axis raiders on the surface of the sea, strike their deadly blow—first."

What defense? We were chilling on our side of the Atlantic, why's our defense necessary in the middle of the ocean? And FDR just said their mere presence is grounds to open fire.

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. I'll agree with all of those things were happening. My point is still that by Hitler declaring War, FDR finally got what he wanted: the ability to openly prosecute a full war against Germany.

In the near future, we'll be doing Deep Fakes of leaders calling us out to start our wars. But that wasn't the case here.

[–]sodomytron 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

why

[–]theFriendlyDoomer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because the U.S. up to that point had a long history of a) the Monroe Doctrine and b) demobilizing immediately after wars. Though we got dragged into WWI, we even demobilized right after it and started referring to that war as "the war to end all wars." War with Germany was a super unpopular idea in the U.S. I recommend William Manchester's book The Glory and the Dream for the background. Though FDR was in fact trying to build that support (and, sure, I'll listen to the theory that he allowed had the intel but let Pearl Harbor happen) he hadn't really gotten there. Hitler declaring war, an act no one but himself made him do, gave all the PR needed to get support for the two-front war.

Look at the actual history of U.S. in protracted wars, such as the Civil War (ie from the North's perspective) or Vietnam. The public gets sick of fighting them. Also, imagine the kind of warfare the U.S. had to do against Japan -- island to island, against suicide runs. In this timeline, we might have grinded through more citizens but not had the A-bomb in time to speed up the surrender of the mainland.

In the meantime, if Hitler wins the Soviet front, he has all the oil he needs. Or, if he wins the U.K. front, he can set up a much better defense against U.S. invasion.