What is up with "lesbians" who meet their exception?

submitted by Astrid2448 from self.Lesbians

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[–]yousaythosethings 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't know how concerted and purposeful the "marketing" is. I'm not one to dabble in conspiracy theories, but reaching peak trans has had the effect of me trying to understand wtf is going on so I can figure out where we go from here. It's been a never-ending domino effect of realizations. In the case of gender identity ideology/TRA vs. comphet, I think the championing of comphet at minimum is a side effect of TRA/gender identity ideology colonization if not a deliberate offshoot. Let's not forget that in gender identity ideology you can opt into and out of sexual orientation based on self-identification alone and no one can question it. This idea pairs nicely with the concept of comphet taken to the extreme, which is that women are not heterosexual by nature, heterosexuality is forced on women, and therefore it's something women can opt out of, and should want to opt out of.

I would summarize relevant key tenets of TRA/gender identity ideology as: (1) you choose your own adventure (SO much emphasis on personal choice and not being bound by our birth sex); (2) your "truth" is more important and real than "the truth" and NO ONE can question it; (3) to be your authentic self, you have to change everything about yourself including making your hobbies and lifestyle reflect this new identity; (4) being gay is a feeling (how many stories from trans people are there where they talk about how they just feel like their heterosexual attraction is "gay?"; (5) LGBTQ+ is a social club for misfits (which is why they're SO obsessed with the word "queer" - they want to stand out and be seen and heard, not just be human beings living their lives) and this group is held together by manipulation tactics like forced teaming to keep the cloak of legitimacy and normalcy obtained by LGB people who successfully fought for our rights by demonstrating how we are like everyone else, co-opting the oppression experienced by LGB people, and then gaslighting LGB people into believing our rights were the fruit of the labors of trans people.

As we know, "gay" isn't a feeling. It just means exhibiting exclusive same-sex attraction, and as it turns out if you're gay that sensation alone feels entirely normal. It just is. It doesn't require you to look, dress, or vote a certain way, or adopt a particular lifestyle. It's not an identity, but a description of a factual, biological reality. Just like being a natural redhead isn't itself an identity. But TRA and comphet is turning all of this on its head. They eschew that sexual orientation is about a factual description of your biological reality. They both completely uncouple sexual orientation from sex and biology (as I will explain below), and instead put the emphasis on how your sexual orientation should make you feel and the lifestyle associated with the sexual orientation. If you think you would be happier and more fulfilled adopting a "lesbian identity," then that's "valid." I just glanced at the Master Doc and some things that leapt out right away include:

  • Wishing you were a lesbian to escape the discomfort of dating men

  • Fantasizing about how much fun it would be to be a lesbian and just be with women/a specific woman, but thinking that can’t be for you (this would not be so bad if they didn't make it about "how much fun it would be to be a lesbian" specifically, which is emphasizing the label, lifestyle, and identity of "lesbian" over the factual circumstances that happen to make one a lesbian)

  • You imagine a hypothetical future where you end up with a man and it makes you feel uncomfortable, scared, sad, disappointed, wrong. It’s an upsetting thing to think about and you hope it doesn’t happen. You don’t want to end up with a man even if you feel like you could.

  • Having a lot of your ‘guy’ crushes later turn out to be trans women

  • You wish you weren’t attracted to men / You wish you were a lesbian

  • Thinking relationships would be simpler “if only I were attracted to women/my best friend who would be perfect for me if she/I weren’t a girl”

  • Thinking you couldn’t be a lesbian because you’re not attractive enough, cool enough, or otherwise in the same league as most of the women you know (selling lesbians as the “cool girls” again. How many of us grew up thinking of lesbians as the “cool girls” club for Christ’s sake?)

You know what's missing from this master doc? Discussion of specific attraction to the particularities of female bodies. The shit that actually makes women lesbians. They've totally separated women from being female here. This is TRA ideology in action. The glaring sign that my attraction to women wasn't just some surface level "woman crush Wednesday" stuff was my intense attraction to the particularities of female bodies and desire to physically interact with these body parts: breasts (and specifically the feel of natural ones of all sizes), vulvas, clitorises, the idea of performing oral sex on a pussy generally, the softness of female bodies, the way women smell, the sound of female voices, women's hands, women's hair, women's eyes, women's laughs, etc. Here's the closest the master doc gets to discussing attraction to female bodies:

  • Thinking that your interest in seeing attractive women/scantily clad women/boobs is an artificial reaction caused by the objectification of women in media (No details, just “interest in seeing . . . boobs.” Sounds like what a straight guy would say and transbians’ obsession with “tiddies.” No discussion of the specifics of sexual acts or sexual touching.)

  • Feeling like you could enjoy sexual interaction with a woman, even if you can’t imagine having romantic feelings for a woman (could enjoy?)

In contrast, search the word “sex” on its own across the doc and notice how it’s all about sex with men. Just like with any trendy pseudoscience, there is a lot of legitimate stuff in the master doc to cover up the rest with the cloak of legitimacy. But if a straight woman is able to be convinced that she's not heterosexual because of comphet, it's not going to make her not straight, but TRA has a convenient way of allowing straight women in heterosexual relationships to be "queer." (i.e. by taking a trans-identified males as a romantic and sexual partner). And BAM, both are now "lesbians" and "so valid" and, in fact, they are oppressed by the terfy lesbians.

I had been noticing some yellow flags in r/LBL and in the Lesbian Chronicles, but I was writing them off as merely not relevant to me because I didn't see the coherent picture they were building toward. Reading the recent discussions of comphet on here helped me recast what I had observed in this new light. I did not make the connection to TRA and gender identity ideology but I did recognize that r/LBL is fully on board the gender train and there is encouragement of trans-identified males there coming out as late bloomer lesbians and discussing their experience with comphet, though those posts should peak any actual late bloomer lesbians fa real.

That being said, I’ve noticed patterns in the most confused people on LBL. They are also suffering from some kind of identity issue or lack of agency: many of them are autistic, stay-at-home moms, and some have a poor sense of self resulting from a variety of sources including borderline personality disorder, trauma, abuse, etc. The subreddit and Lesbian Chroniclse are overwhelmingly about the positives and how much better their lives are now once they’ve moved on. But you see so many women not moving on and willingly keeping their male partners, and it should be a red flag for them that’s something off in their identity.

Also, as an aside, I don’t think I’ve seen you post anything that is a red flag that you’re not a lesbian. I think you just fit the profile of an actual LBL.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Let's not forget that in gender identity ideology you can opt into and out of sexual orientation based on self-identification alone and no one can question it. This idea pairs nicely with the concept of comphet taken to the extreme, which is that women are not heterosexual by nature, heterosexuality is forced on women, and therefore it's something women can opt out of, and should want to opt out of.

I think that alone is a very good short summary of the problems with comphet and the comphet document.

I would summarize relevant key tenets of TRA/gender identity ideology as...

This is a very, very good summary as well. I will probably share these points with people, if you don't mind.

They both completely uncouple sexual orientation from sex and biology (as I will explain below), and instead put the emphasis on how your sexual orientation should make you feel and the lifestyle associated with the sexual orientation.

See... this is the most intriguing thing about it, to me. You can almost understand how people who are like "BDSM is a part of LGBT" got to that point-- because BDSM is a lifestyle and if LGBT is said to be a lifestyle by TRAs, no wonder they are confused. That link you noted in your other comment, from r/LBL about the transwoman and woman couple having trouble with having "queer sex"-- is a manifestation of this in the language people are using. I am actually kind of wondering at the term "gay culture" now, too, for example. I know "gay" has not been co-opted in the way that "queer" has been, but at the same time, if we consider that gay is just the presence of same-sex attraction, then anything could technically be "gay culture" if there is the presence of same-sex attraction.. you know?

You know what's missing from this master doc? Discussion of specific attraction to the particularities of female bodies....

Wow. That sounds so obvious lol now you mention it, but wow. It's also so sad to me that any mention of vulvas or female-specific body parts is being censored from AL, because like. I feel like that's one of the most taboo things to talk about.

"Thinking that your interest in seeing attractive women/scantily clad women/boobs is an artificial reaction caused by the objectification of women in media (No details, just “interest in seeing . . . boobs.” Sounds like what a straight guy would say and transbians’ obsession with “tiddies.” No discussion of the specifics of sexual acts or sexual touching.)"

Yup, yup, exactly. I can't express how much I hate that word, having heard it with disgusting repetition from straight males; it disgusts me so much. It is like the male fantasy "if I had boobs I would stare at myself in the mirror all day.." was brought to life. These straight men can indeed grow breasts, and then force or pressure other women to date them and then claim that they are "lesbians".

But if a straight woman is able to be convinced that she's not heterosexual because of comphet, it's not going to make her not straight, but TRA has a convenient way of allowing straight women in heterosexual relationships to be "queer." (i.e. by taking a trans-identified males as a romantic and sexual partner). And BAM, both are now "lesbians" and "so valid" and, in fact, they are oppressed by the terfy lesbians.

Yeah.. that makes perfect sense. I have seen that before, but somehow it did not occur to me that the "cis lesbians" in question might actually be straight women who were confused by comphet into thinking they were lesbians, lol. That's REALLY crazy. The word has lost all meaning, whoa..

Your breakdown of LBL is helpful to read. Fortunately, I did not look at that sub til very recently when I saw people here commenting about the problems with it.

That being said, I’ve noticed patterns in the most confused people on LBL. They are also suffering from some kind of identity issue or lack of agency: many of them are autistic, stay-at-home moms, and some have a poor sense of self resulting from a variety of sources including borderline personality disorder, trauma, abuse, etc. The subreddit and Lesbian Chroniclse are overwhelmingly about the positives and how much better their lives are now once they’ve moved on. But you see so many women not moving on and willingly keeping their male partners, and it should be a red flag for them that’s something off in their identity.

This is especially interesting because, as I'm sure you're aware, some of these forms of psychopathology are known to give way to frequent switches in sexual orientation. In fact-- I kind of wonder if the whole TRA ideology tenet of "you can self-ID as anything you want, anytime! You're valid!" is just blatantly a symptom, of some of these disorders.

Over the past few years, I have learned for myself that these two observations are simultaneously true: - Your feelings are real and worth considering. - Your feelings do not (necessarily) reflect reality.

The transgender rights movement fails to recognize the second one. They can "feel like women" (whatever that means), but that does not mean they get periods or need to be screened for cervical cancer. They can feel hatred towards their bodies, but that does not mean they have the "soul of a woman/man" or that they are even trans-- could be dysmorphia related to an eating disorder, trauma, etc.

I realize this conversation has ended up being about the trans rights movement, lol. But all of this is super important in how it pertains to lesbians, because "comphet" has become a very commonly-known topic among lesbians and it affects who decides to say they are a lesbian and why. I do really think that at least this newer version of comphet is catering to TRA goals and ideology. Would you mind if I posted on s/LGBDroptheT about comphet? I might link this comment of yours that I'm responding to, if that's okay with you.

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope I don’t mind at all. I’m glad you found this analysis useful.

Even over the last few days I’ve seen more concerning references to comphet in the wild and I think it’s really being used and abused.

I saw 2 YouTube videos from a woman, one where she went on her first date with a woman and a later one where she addressed what her sexual orientation is (without explicitly saying what it was). She tried to leave it open ended but basically the effect was that she had only been actively romantically and sexually attracted to men but was “open” to being with a woman if she ever felt the attraction. And she talked about how labels shouldn’t matter and we shouldn’t judge others but I got creeped out because she was using same-sex attraction as being “open-minded .” She could have just said “I’m straight but if I ever did feel same-sex attraction I wouldn’t close myself off from exploring it.” There was a lot of good stuff in what she was saying in that people fall all over the sexuality spectrum but she had to make it this whole thing where she was almost denying the existence of pure monosexuality while also failing to admit she’s straight. It’s like I’ve seen straight people call themselves Pan because they’re open-minded like Lily-Rose Depp who featured in a campaign about non-straight orientation and it’s woke to the point of ignorance. And like is it just same-sex attraction that signals being open-minded to them or should lesbians/gays also be open-minded about dick/pussy? I don’t feel like my sexual orientation is open-minded, it just is. But again, it comes down to these wokesters seeing homo and bisexuality as lifestyles, identities, and feelings and not factual descriptions of biological reality. It’s people like this who fail to understand why conservative gay people are a thing. Like why wouldn’t they exist? Anyway, I digress again. . . . But one of the reasons why I brought this up was people commented on the video bringing up comphet and how it helped them realize they were gay and that set off alarm bells in me if they watched the video and didn’t see all these red flags yet call themselves lesbians.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That being said, I’ve noticed patterns in the most confused people on LBL. They are also suffering from some kind of identity issue or lack of agency: many of them are autistic, stay-at-home moms, and some have a poor sense of self resulting from a variety of sources including borderline personality disorder, trauma, abuse, etc. The subreddit and >Lesbian Chroniclse are overwhelmingly about the positives and how much better their lives are now once they’ve moved on. But you see so many women not moving on and willingly keeping their male partners, and it should be a red flag for them that’s something off in their identity.

This concerns me a lot. It's really similar to what is happening in the trans community on places like egg_irl and I don't want our community to do that too. These people need help with whatever they have going on; not to use lesbianism as a crutch. I know that people with asd and bdp have trouble spotting manipulative behaviour (something about their sense of fear) and I suspect that they can't see how they're being manipulated by online communities. Much like many of the people in the trans community can't see that. Combine that with low self-esteem and possibly an unstable sense of self and things will go wrong.