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[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I tend to disagree as I view them both as toxic and idiots. I don't understand the woman starting with the whole 'it was a great night!' shtick to immediately switch to 'yeah, no more'. That's one weird game to play and rather stupid if you want to go for the 'soft let down' to avoid arguing.

However, I have a hard time to see the transperson as less toxic: he keeps poking, no answer is good enough, he keeps referring to 'real lesbian sex' with his dick, throws the usual transphobia agrument in it and so on. What does he try to accomplish?

Don't get me wrong: the girl played a very stupid game, doesn't seem very nice, and indeed indifferent. He, however, keeps on nagging and whining because he is such a true and honest woman. From my perspective, the guilt tripping is just as toxic as I have had the unpleasant experience of dudes trying to guilt trip me into bed, in some cases including crying, after saying 'sorry, I don't see this work'. I am quite biased, I agree.

Thing is: girl doesn't want to do this anymore. The way she states it is perhaps cold and harsh, but no is rightfully no. He has every right to be sad and disappointed about the outcome, but the whole 'you don't see me as a woman' is absolutely pointless.

The girl is weird in her rejection. Just say you don't see it work/you don't feel the spark and leave it at that. Easier, no lies, no arguments, no cruel bashing, and everybody can usually move on rather nicely.

If anything, it is very good these two stop dating. That would become one hell of a shitshow.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't understand the woman starting with the whole 'it was a great night!' shtick to immediately switch to 'yeah, no more'.

Me:

she comes off sounding indifferent to his personhood

That's shorthand for a much longer description which I've applied in a few comments on this post. To be indifferent to someone's personhood you have to be toxic AF. So we agree they are both toxic idiots. She just gets to have more intel about his likely vulnerabilities than vice versa and his are more self-inflicted and more profound.

However, I have a hard time to see the transperson as less toxic: he keeps poking, no answer is good enough, he keeps referring to 'real lesbian sex' with his dick, throws the usual transphobia agrument in it and so on. What does he try to accomplish?

Well yes, but neither she nor we are buying it, which is why we can argue that she's got the advantage. She sounds like she's phoning it in with her responses to his attempts to redirect her desires and beliefs. I would argue that she's clearly putting up a front by choice, in other words. He is, too, but his underpins his sense of self. Hers is about getting him to go away.

He has existential problems with this whole interaction which she doesn't have.

Thing is: girl doesn't want to do this anymore. The way she states it is perhaps cold and harsh, but no is rightfully no. He has every right to be sad and disappointed about the outcome, but the whole 'you don't see me as a woman' is absolutely pointless.

Not to him. It has everything to do with who he thinks he is. Is it stupid to argue with "no"? Of course. But she makes excuses which don't match up with why she got into this situation in the first place. So he's questioning it just like we are, but he's doing it through the "I'm a woman" delusional lens.

What I'm talking about here is the extent to which he believes what comes out of his mouth, vs. the extent she believes what comes out of hers. Her affect is flat as a pancake, here; it has DGAF written all over it. She clearly has very little riding on this situation. He has everything riding on it in the sense of wanting to know if his delusion was a shared one or not; his identity is a house of cards. Shoring that up is a constant enterprise.

And that's the neediness and insecurity coming out. Yes, he's going to harangue and whine. He's trying to sell a delusion. Gotta knock on that closed door a couple more times before "no" is going to be heard.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry but I'm going to agree to disagree. I don't think he is that unaware about who or what he really is.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also, I would like to apologise if I sound more harsh then intended. This was one hell of a week and I'm currently sitting in a polyester bridesmaid dress during a heatwave. Brain is not fuctioning properly.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remember to hydrate, including electrolytes!