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[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have strong thoughts that you didn't ask for on the dating apps I've used, so buckle up.

THANK you. I was actually debating making a post about this (and still might), this was exactly the sort of information I was looking for. Much appreciation, seriously!!!

I've considered doing a comprehensive review of the dating apps I've used while dating as a (non reality-denying) lesbian for funsies.

I would love to read that (assuming that this comment isn't it already!).

I was already leaning towards Hinge, but your comments cement my resolve, particularly this one:

Hinge has sexual orientation as an option and generally when a woman is a lesbian, she's going to select that and have it be visible on her profile, so you can make judgments about a woman actively deciding to not make her sexual orientation visible on her profile.

Oh my god that sounds invaluable. Also I appreciate you pointing that out because that's the exact type of detail that online dating articles written for straight people will not mention.

Couple questions:

  • For same-sex female relationships, is Tinder pretty much only for hookups? I've heard most straight people say that but was wondering if it was the same for lesbian/bi women.

  • Have you had anyone, over app message or in-person, challenge you on "un-PC" things? E.g. not having pronouns in bio, using sex-based terms of attraction, lack of negativity towards JKR? (My personal general rule is to not get into any debates about that in writing, so at least people can't fuck me over via screenshot, but just wondering how common it is.)

  • If you had to guess... out of, say, every 10 or so people you see on Hinge, what # are lesbian/bisexual women who don't immediately seem like they're drinking the gender identity koolaid? (I'm not even talking personality fit or attractiveness, just baseline demographic compatibility.)

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh my god that sounds invaluable. Also I appreciate you pointing that out because that's the exact type of detail that online dating articles written for straight people will not mention.

Yes, in my experience it is absolutely hands down the most useful feature on any dating app I've used, and it's notable that it's a standout feature. Like all these pronouns but no sexual orientation when sexual orientation is at the very center of dating?

I am genuinely curious about the thought process behind any woman who is serious about dating women but who actively decides to hide her sexual orientation from her profile. The only "good" reason I can come up with is that she knows she likes women but is still unsure if she is lesbian or bisexual, but that tends to result in one of the more understandable uses of resorting to putting "queer" as your sexual orientation (which then gets lost in all the other less ideal reasons someone might list "queer"). I can give these women a pass if they make it evident on their profile elsewhere that they are looking for a woman specifically, which is not hard to do. Like if the prompt is asking what you're looking for, it's not hard to say "A woman who. . . ."

For same-sex female relationships, is Tinder pretty much only for hookups? I've heard most straight people say that but was wondering if it was the same for lesbian/bi women.

Yes and no. It's heavily geared toward hookups so I think we all need to have that in mind when using it and sussing out the other woman's intentions, but that's on top of communicating about what you both are looking for. So when things are ambiguous even after you've communicated about intentions, IMO it's best to err on the side of assuming more casual intentions on the part of the other person. Casual intentions includes hookups but it's not hookups alone. It also includes "I'm not actively looking for a relationship, but am looking to connect with women and am down for whatever makes sense based on that connection" among other things. This is just my interpretation. Tinder can also provide some interesting info about women you come across on other apps since Tinder profiles are much more open-ended.

Have you had anyone, over app message or in-person, challenge you on "un-PC" things? E.g. not having pronouns in bio, using sex-based terms of attraction, lack of negativity towards JKR? (My personal general rule is to not get into any debates about that in writing, so at least people can't fuck me over via screenshot, but just wondering how common it is.)

No, but I have a loooot of thoughts on this. The details are probably better to discuss via dm. I’m pretty strategic, not like I pre-plan conversations, but just make sure I don’t put myself in a bad position. Like you, I don’t get into anything on my profile or in writing.

In person, I pay attention to the other person first, how they communicate, their interests, their word choice, etc.. If relevant to the conversation, I might casually throw in a phrase like “the same sex” or “the opposite sex” and gauge any reaction or non-reaction. The kind of thing that they would have to be an absolute zealot to call out as “problematic” and that does not give them any dirt on me. I don’t force any discussions and I make sure to carefully establish that my background is in Western liberal values before I get anywhere near a touchy subject. It helps that I have a lot of things on my “resume” that align with SJW stuff (before it got corrupted).

I also try to establish that I’m thoughtful, able to acknowledge my own blindspots, don’t like to take strong positions on things I don’t know enough about, and am geared toward balance and nuance, and not a reactionary of any kind (whether left or rightwing). And when I touch a contentious subject, I keep my statements as personal and close to me as possible, which makes them less subject to attack and more easily defensible. I talk about my experiences. My feelings. How I experience attraction. How I knew I was a lesbian. Experiences within my field and areas of study. I have been asked if I would date a trans woman. That one is pretty easy for me to respond to in a way that any reasonable person should be able to understand, so anything less than understanding from them would be a giant red flag.

If you had to guess... out of, say, every 10 or so people you see on Hinge, what # are lesbian/bisexual women who don't immediately seem like they're drinking the gender identity koolaid? (I'm not even talking personality fit or attractiveness, just baseline demographic compatibility.)

I don’t think I can put a number to this within this framework. For a number of reasons, I mostly sort through who has already liked me. This is particularly because I don’t want to have to make a snap judgment about the abundant otherwise appealing profiles that don’t explicitly list their sexual orientation since I can’t skip over them. I would say that there are enough lesbian and bi women who do not overtly sip the koolaid within my likes that they are not unicorns and I haven’t needed to venture out beyond them. A few of them include she/her pronouns, but that would have been the only mark against them. But there are a lot of ambiguous cases. Like otherwise appear normal to normal-ish but then list “Queer” as their sexual orientation or something like that. I keep them on ice. I haven’t ended up directly engaging or meeting anyone in person whose profile doesn’t explicitly say “Lesbian” or “Bisexual” specifically.

I actually don’t see that many women list “Bisexual” though, and on an app like Hinge, I interpret women who select “Bisexual” as serious candidates. I see more women whose profiles say “Lesbian” than “Bisexual.”

There’s maybe been one case of someone who listed “Pansexual” who wasn’t otherwise entirely objectionable in easily predictable ways. It makes it clear that “Pansexual” is not really about sexual orientation but politics, ideology, and aesthetic. Women who list “Queer” are already entirely objectionable perhaps 80% of the time.

It's also worth noting I haven't seen any explicit radfemmery or political lesbian types on dating apps. Women who explicitly state that they are feminists are very clearly the "liberal feminist" or "intersectional feminist" type, often with all the overt irony that comes with that. I steer clear of them. They tend to abound in the kind of proud cognitive dissonance and ideological aggression that makes them the most dangerous. I can't imagine radfems or political lesbians on dating apps tbh. Nor would I want to date them.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am genuinely curious about the thought process behind any woman who is serious about dating women but who actively decides to hide her sexual orientation from her profile.

You know, it's sad and frustrating but I was reading a few posts by bisexual women about online dating (trying to get any WLW perspective I can here) and they were disheartened because they thought that they weren't getting matches because some lesbian women don't want to date bisexual women. And then the people in the comments were like: "Don't tag yourself as bisexual, tag yourself as queer! That'll avoid the problem!" Like... 1) you shouldn't have to hide the fact that you're bisexual 2) those lesbian women would still leave once they eventually find out you're bisexual anyway... there is no winning with them.

Yes and no. It's heavily geared toward....

Gotcha, that all makes sense, thanks.

No, but I have a loooot of thoughts on this. The details are probably better to discuss via dm.

Will hit you up :)

I don’t force any discussions and I make sure to carefully establish that my background is in Western liberal values before I get anywhere near a touchy subject.

Yup, I've come to take that approach, too.

And when I touch a contentious subject, I keep my statements as personal and close to me as possible, which makes them less subject to attack and more easily defensible. I talk about my experiences. My feelings. How I experience attraction. How I knew I was a lesbian.

Ahhhh, now that's a good approach. What I love about that, too, is that in a way this strategy takes advantage of a weakness of Queer Theory (specifically, a weakness that comes from its postmodernist heritage): "Always question the institution, never question the individual." Even someone drinking the koolaid of gender identity would likely adhere to that Queer Theory social norm and use kiddie gloves when disagreeing with you.

It's funny, I hear you describing these tactics and they're all quite sound, and some of them are things that I also do that I wouldn't even think to describe unless someone asked me. Having some of these types of tactics described explicitly in a guide or something would be an invaluable resource, I think; it would likely generalize well to situations with friends, too, not just dating.

I don’t think I can put a number to this within this framework. For a number of reasons, I mostly sort through who has already liked me.

I'll have to see whether or not the same strategy is available to me at all, hahaha. I'm sure you do just fine. :)

I would say that there are enough lesbian and bi women who do not overtly sip the koolaid within my likes that they are not unicorns and I haven’t needed to venture out beyond them.

Really glad to hear that, both for your sake and in general. But, I'm keenly curious to see how that will play out with my being in Gen Z.

I actually don’t see that many women list “Bisexual” though, and on an app like Hinge, I interpret women who select “Bisexual” as serious candidates. I see more women whose profiles say “Lesbian” than “Bisexual.”

Really... that's so fascinating. I guess plain ol' bisexual is just considered "boring," now. Man, TRAs really do have a fast turnover rate on the demographic groups that they colonize.