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[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

We don’t make enough time for trans and non-binary members within our spaces and venues.

Why should we make time for these people? Those spaces are meant for us. If we give them permission to be in our spaces - which we’re not obligated to do, by the way - we expect them to behave themselves because they’re guests in our spaces.

I have had to argue on behalf of trans men who have been knocked back at the door of ‘Bear night’ because they didn’t fit the profile.

Well then you are free walk out with these delusional heterosexual/bisexual women so. Please do, because you are destroying our spaces from the inside. Women don’t belong in bears' spaces unless we invite them, and even then, they have to behave themselves. If you want to simp for them, do it somewhere else.

There’s no Goldilocks template for bears, none of us are ‘just right’ — all of us are. I have tried my best to break down the self-defeatist attitude of my friends who don’t think they are hairy enough, muscled enough, etc. to be considered attractive by the standards set by Instabears wearing Nasty Pig jocks or rocking a new OnlyFans account. There is nothing wrong with those things, but we cannot let our community become subsumed into the idea that there is an acceptable level of masculinity, and an unacceptable level of femininity that must be either nurtured or rejected.

There is nothing wrong with bears having standards, and if you can’t adhere to these standards, then be something else and go somewhere else.

That’s what society has done to us, and we simply need to do better than to inherit the closeted, internalised homophobia that has been given to us.

Are you seriously comparing masculine gay men being themselves and wanting spaces for themselves to homophobia? Are you mentally ill? Don’t answer that, I know. I’m not masculine because of homophobia, I’m masculine because that’s just how I am. I’m also not attracted to masculine men because of homophobia, I’m attracted to masculine men because that’s how my sexuality is.

It’s beyond time that we, as a community, challenged the notion of how important that masculinity is to us, and if being wedded to the outmoded notion of a gender binary is really worth it.

Masculinity is important to me, it’s important to a lot of gay men. And if you cannot see that, then that’s your affair.

People like you, Stephen, are the reason why the gay community is dead. People like you being entitled, delusional and narcissistic, coming into our spaces and demanding we cater to your every demand just because we’re all same sex attracted. This has to end. Gay men with their heads screwed on need to stand up, speak up and push back against assholes like you. And if that bothers you, find some gay men who are exactly like you, because sadly, there are plenty of gay men like you. And then you wonder why there’s an increase in homophobia? Because yes, your behaviour is not only hurting other gay men, but society at large. Not to mention the amount of closeted gay male teenagers who struggle because they look at people like you and end up believing that it’s you numpties who are representative of the gay community, because they don’t want anything to do with people like you.

End rant.

That was long, but everything I’ve said needed to be said. Comments have been edited for grammar and spelling. Anyway, the comments on this page are not having it, so I’m glad some gay men are standing up for our community.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I guess I’m one of the few gay men who don’t like him.

You're not the only one.

His association with a certain person kind of muddled my feelings in relation to him.

MASC4MASC

People have the right to decide who they want to hang around and have sex with.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand.

By "they", do you mean bears? Because I’m pretty sure we don’t get these looks at sports bars or "straight" bars.

Also, I don't believe most bears are dumb/narcissistic enough to barge in a space which doesn't welcome their presence.

Are we supposed to let twinks and NBs boss us around just because homophobes were mean to us? No, we have enough problems with homophobes besides non-binary gender weirdos making our lives miserable. Leave us alone.

Also, it's funny how this guy is speaking for twinks even though he isn't one.

Oh, it's almost like most of them don't care about this shite and already have their own spaces to hang around with each other!

I get it, you have a problem with masculinity. But masculinity is what a lot of gay men are attracted to, and so many gay men are naturally masculine. If you don’t like it, then leave us alone. And the fact that you have compared gay male masculinity to a stinkbomb illustrates your homophobia and entitlement.

Exactly, gay men have the right to be masculine... and to be feminine as well.

It's almost like this guy wants to be treated with kiddy gloves his entire life.

If you don’t like it, then stop trying to participate in it. But no. You’d rather storm into spaces that were not meant for you and demand that those spaces cater to you, because you are an entitled, narcissistic attention whore who only cares about himself.

Cluster B disorders are a hell of a drug.

It's no wonder that even a majority of psychologists don't want to deal with this shit.

Are you seriously comparing masculine gay men being themselves and wanting spaces for themselves to homophobia? Are you mentally ill? Don’t answer that, I know. I’m not masculine because of homophobia, I’m masculine because that’s just how I am. I’m also not attracted to masculine men because of homophobia, I’m attracted to masculine men because that’s how my sexuality is.

And there we have it.

These people scream about 'prejudice' and 'bigotry' 24/7 only to hide their own.

Nice!

That was long, but everything I’ve said needed to be said. Comments have been edited for grammar and spelling. Anyway, the comments on this page are not having it, so I’m glad some gay men are standing up for our community.

Yessssss.

I'm very happy to hear this.

We won't bend to the demands of the Cluster Brigade.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You’re right about the twinks. Most twinks don’t give a shit, and whenever I’m in a space meant for twinks, I behave like a guest, because I am a guest. Some twinks like masculine men, and most of the rest are not interested but don’t mind masculine men. Most twinks would be put off by people like Stephen Donnan-Dalzell.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

They would probably mock him for being a narcissistic attention whore, which is fine by me, lmao!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Graceful twinks would refuse to interact with him, and sassy twinks would laugh at him and belittle his appearance.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Just curious, what are the certain type of people you're talking about when you're saying your feelings on RuPaul are muddied? (Edit: I see you actually said a certain person so I guess you're referring to just one person although there have apparently been multiple trans contestants.)

I've been a fan of Drag Race for a long time, but haven't caught up because I don't have cable and only just now found a streaming service that goes past Season 8 (which was the last one I'd seen). I understand that one of the most recent seasons had a woman calling herself a man performing as a woman (and my understanding is also that said contestant made it to the finale or close), and that kind of muddied my feelings on Ru, as well.

But I also know that RuPaul is pretty savvy and I wonder how much he actually buys into the gender nonsense vs. how much he realizes that if he's going to run a drag competition in 2021 that he needs to cater to the genderspecials lest he be cancelled.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t hate RuPaul, but I don’t like him either. I just don’t care for drag queens.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I like Drag Race specifically but I don't really care for drag queens in real life; I have been friends with a few and they tend to be not really my cup of tea as far as people to hang out with.

I quite enjoy RuPaul as an actor, though, and it does make me a little sad to see him buying into the TQ stuff if that's what he's actually doing and not just trying to keep his show afloat.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I quite enjoy RuPaul as an actor, though, and it does make me a little sad to see him buying into the TQ stuff if that's what he's actually doing and not just trying to keep his show afloat.

My impression of Ru in the last few years has been that he doesn't believe but has decided to play along to protect his media empire.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hopefully RuPaul stands up for himself if he knows what’s going on.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Just curious, what are the certain type of people you're talking about when you're saying your feelings on RuPaul are muddied? (Edit: I see you actually said a certain person so I guess you're referring to just one person although there have apparently been multiple trans contestants.)

So you don't know? Oh my...

The person I'm refering to is none other than Michael Alig, a literal sex pest and murderer.

He was the creator of the whole 'Club Kids' fad, or as I like to call it, the place where bright futures went to die.

He also got involved with Desmond (yes, the 'drag kid') of all people after getting out of jail for killing his drug dealer.

He was a very close friend of RuPaul, who never said a thing condemning his actions, including the murder.

[–]Rag3 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

ALIG WAS FRIENDS WITH RUPAUL? Welp. That solidifies my dislike.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's a documentary, I believe it's name is 'Party Monster', which explains the link between RuPaul and Alig in a quite detailed way.

It's on YouTube if you want to give it a watch.

[–]Rag3 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yes! I’ve been meaning to watch that for a long time now. I’m only familiar with Alig from true crime docs in early aughts + the documentary he released when he got out of jail.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He’s friends with RuPaul. Okay it’s settled, I hate RuPaul.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

RuPaul was a 'Club Kid' himself, so yeah...