DiscussionIs Queer Theory just Satanism rebranded?

submitted by our_team_is_winning from (self.LGBDropTheT)

Satanism is often described as inversion, turning everything upside down. Hence the upside down cross symbol, saying the Lord's Prayer backward, etc. When they use this verb "to queer" something, do they just mean standing it on its head in the same way?

We've got a woman wanting to be Mr. Gay England; we have men nominated for and winning contests that were for women; we have middle aged autogynephiles dressing in baby doll outfits; lesbian sites are overflowing with men; all of that upside down, outlandish crap.

I'm not saying there even is a Satan as such, just that the concept and performance of "Satanism" is all about inversion, and so too is this "Queering" of things.

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[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't believe in Satan or gods of any kind. But this latest revelation about the father of Queer Theory certainly puts things in perspective.

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

archive link: https://archive.is/8eXyc

Wow. That is so messed up. I suppose I should read more about this, this guy really is the father of so-called "Queer Theory". Good grief. Pedophilia; paraphilias; narcissism. Where have we seen this pattern before, hmm?

Sorman, speaking about Foucalt:

"...but simply to understand the truth about him and how he [Foucalt] and some of these philosophers used their arguments to justify their passions and desires,” he said. “He [Foucalt] thought his arguments gave him permission to do whatever he wanted.”

Again, this sounds damn familiar.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What a disgusting human being.

Doesn’t surprise me that a paedophile pushed this evil ideology.

[–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 9 fun7 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

🤔 is this related to Lil Nas X, an openly gay rapper who has crossdressed as Nicki Minaj, and his satanic music video and Nike sneakers with human blood in them?

I think these "queer" people have been given too much leniency and feel comfortable enough to take shit too far.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Really interesting question. I don't know anything about Satanism outside of what you've just posted here, but I can tell you that postmodernism (of which Queer Theory is a modern offshoot) was originally about endless deconstruction and disruption. And I do mean endless: it critiqued everything, which is impractical for activism since activism has to have goals. Based on what you've described it sounds like Satanism has more in common with OG postmodernism, where shaking things up is a goal unto itself and there are no political or even societal aspirations.

Queer Theory is far more moralistic and ambitious. It pursues a specific agenda.

[–]goatmeal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

have you read "cynical theories" by helen pluckrose and james lindsay? I started recommending that book. it's a good primer on what you're talking about and I think everyone on saidit would benefit from reading this

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes I have! That book made me reverse my previous belief that the fear of pedophilia's inevitable legitimization is rooted in a slippery slope fallacy. I'm now genuinely afraid that we're going to have to contend with that in the near future.

Helen Pluckrose is a phenomenal thinker and writer - I highly recommend checking out New Discourses and Areo Magazine if you haven't already. And if you have any further recommendations to share, please do! This is the most fascinating rabbit hole I've fallen into in years.

[–]slushpilot 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you want to look at it in those specific religious or symbolic terms, perhaps yes.

A more general understanding of "queering" is subversion of established norms. The actual stated goal is to destabilize understanding, and then to re-incorporate the all the contraditions together so they are no longer contradictory.

There is another name for this: Hegelian dialectic. A guy named Marx wrote a manual on using it. Then another guy named Lenin used it to "turn everything upside down".

[–]boypower 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Well if it's satanism, it has marvelous results for religions and their deep-rooted hatred for homosexuality. I generally think that queer theory and queer theology is just deconstructing and dressing up old oppressive structures in society and making them feel nicer and more '' inviting '' for marginalized folk (so they don't revolt), which often leads to preventing criticism and actually taking down these oppressive structures for good.

[–]MyLongestJourney 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Queer theory is an offshoot of post modernist "philosophy" (the correct term would be sophistry) which elevates personal experience as the most valid type of evidence (when science knows that it is the worst type of evidence) and analyses everything under the prism of oppression.There is no objective truth in post modernist worldview and let's face it,objective truth is not what post modernism seeks.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It does seem like sophistry but idk if it really fits since these people actually believe this stuff... Or.. they believe that they believe it.

I'm phrasing it that way because often you see them giving hints that they understand how dumb their arguments actually are.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some believe it. Queer Theory in particular seems to attract/prey upon people with Cluster B personality disorders, which are characterized by a lack of a stable sense of identity and persistent feelings of derealization. I don't think most advocates actually believe this stuff, though, because it doesn't make sense, and more importantly, because they don't care that it doesn't; like all totalitarians, they view the world strictly in terms of power dynamics. To them, it doesn't matter whether something is true, just whether something is problematic.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. That’s exactly what it is. Not saying that Satan is real, but there are people out there worshipping him.

[–]JulienMayfair 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hesitated to read this post, but to answer the question: In a way, yes.

I was around when Queer Theory started and was acquainted with some of its creators. The thing about the intellectual model behind Queer Theory is that it's fundamentally opposed to all prescriptive, mainstream norms without any particular regard for whether or not there might be some common sense behind them. As a result, Queer Theory is never really satisfied. It always needs a new norm or standard to attack or "subvert." Anyone seen doing the "subverting" is good; anyone seen upholding some kind of norm or standard is bad. For example, you might be happy in a monogamous relationship, but to a Queer Theorist, monogamy will always be a problematic structure imposed by the capitalist cis-heteropatriarchy. There's no regard for whether or not something might be psychologically healthy or its ultimate consequences in terms of producing a happy or unhappy life. Everything established must be overturned.

Thus, once homosexuality was somewhat normalized, Queer Theorists invented 'cisgender' so they could have another enemy to attack.