DiscussionIf women ran the world...

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[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks.

I just think we are throwing away some of our allies but pointing out every little thing that could possibly be concieved as "wrong".

I understand that concern. I do think that expecting some sort of purity test for this community is not only harmful but just unrealistic. That said, I have no problems calling out ridiculous comments that are individual since this is a discussion board. And, I think it is kinda hypocritical to say, "we shouldn't stereotype people based on same-sex attraction" (homophobia) but then turn around and say "it's fine to stereotype people based on sex" (misogyny).

But how have straight women turned around and collectively helped our issues? Especially relating to the "cotton ceiling" bs before TRA's started coming for their rights too. Did straight women, who have hetero privilege, turn around and stop the transes from taking over our tiny community in thanks for all that lesbians have done for them. NO. They sat there and lectured us about "acceptance".

I generally agree with you there, but I would add-- some straight women actually infiltrated lesbian communities, and claimed that being lesbian is a brave choice to break away from society. I don't really mind if exponent2 or anyone else complains about radfems, or about what I guess could be called the "lesbian movement" which radfems comandeered, but it's misleading to not acknowledge how this came about-- which is thanks to so-called "political lesbians" who are mostly straight women.

I just read the past comment from a lesbian who was talking about us giving "superior orgasms"...to straight women. Why should we honestly give af about their sex lives?

That's not what she said, she said:

we have superior skills giving women orgasms

She didn't say straight women, she said women, i.e. bisexual/lesbian women. I'm not sure whether or not I agree that lesbians actually do give better orgasms to lesbian/bisexual women than men give to straight women-- I'm not straight so I wouldn't know-- but that is a misquote.

I saw an old article about this and if I can find it Ill send it to you later, if thats okay.

Yeah totally, go for it. I actually saw a similar article to the one you described, if you want me to send it to you, lol.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ill try to look for the article later, Ill send it to you directly if I find it.

But Ill repeat that in the context of my post relating to homophobia. Srry if I just understood her words wrong I really thought she was talking about straight women since they are the majority and would hold power (she also didnt clairfy on whether or not she was only speaking about bi women before I blocked her)...but given your assumption how on earth do lesbians giving great orgasms to other lesbian and bisexual women; have anything to do with homophobia and our place in the world. Women are still homophobic now, and we (lesbians) have been having sex with at least some bi women, since forever so how would that give us power, thats just fantasy.

Im sure gay men have great sex with one another, but has that ever helped them out with getting more bi-male activist support. Nope. Im sure there are more bi men in the world than gay men; but as a collective when have bi men ever risked it in support of gay men despite of having the benefit of living in a patriarchy.

Why did it take a politician like Andrew Gullium, getting caught naked on drugs cheating on his wife, to come out as bisexual, if we still live in a patriarchy. If we lived in a matriarchy, why would straight women or bi women be on our side as lesbians? I mean many of them arent on our side now with the trans bs, even though many of the most effective feminists were lesbians. Straight women wanted us OUT of the feminist movement prior to the 70's because they didnt want to be mistaken as us. Then the 70's rolled around and many straight and bi women felt comfortable co-opting our identity for their own gain. Look up the history of the Lavender Menance and why it was created, non-homo feminists historically have hated on lesbians a lot. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with our "perversion" (homosexuality) or our issues facing us as a community. They still dont care (some just pretend), but would like our energy (since we make better feminists) redirected into help them and their needs. Homophobic women have no problem smiling at a lesbian, to later backstab her, when they want something. Why would straight women re-label themselves as us for no reason, unless they were taking up many of the ideas that came to us naturally? Keeping in mind the wanted nothing to do with us before.

We see how gay men get treated everyday by straight men; how are women inherently better? When we say that women would be better, we basically belittle all the issues that gay men face DESPITE growing up in a patriarchy.

Please watch this video, its a rad fem lesbians talking about other non-lesbians radfem co-opting our experiences and identity. They have done this before:

https://youtu.be/ywmbv3Q3UxI

Look how r/femaledatingstrategy (with many rad fem ideas) pretends to care about lesbians while deleting posts that would help wlw.

Link:https://www.reddit.com/r/LesbianDatingStrategy/comments/m9fdxg/beware_this_is_plain_bs_right_here_beware_ladies/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

but given your assumption how on earth do lesbians giving great orgasms to other lesbian and bisexual women; have anything to do with homophobia and our place in the world.

Agreed.

Then the 70's rolled around and many straight and bi women felt comfortable co-opting our identity for their own gain. Look up the history of the Lavender Menance and why it was created, non-homo feminists historically have hated on lesbians a lot. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with our "perversion" (homosexuality) or our issues facing us as a community.

Yes, exactly! This is what I was trying to talk about.

They still dont care (some just pretend), but would like our energy (since we make better feminists)

I don't see why lesbians would make better feminists. I suppose it is possible that lesbians are less prone to underestimating male violence, since our demographic is sexually assaulted at like twice the rate of straight women, and therefore are "better" feminists.

We see how gay men get treated everyday by straight men; how are women inherently better?

You are preaching to the choir.

When we say that women would be better, we basically belittle all the issues that gay men face DESPITE growing up in a patriarchy.

I would also call that benevolent sexism towards women. Not sure I'm convinced that I live in a patriarchy, though (I'm in the US; there are some users here from the Middle East, so I won't speak for them).

I'll take a look, thanks. I have avoided FDS because it seemed toxic but I didn't realize it had radfem links.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The ideas that lesbians put forth make (or made) us better feminists because we can see through the gender roles that are indoctrinated into young girls since birth, much more easily than straight women. That why a few strange straight/bi women STILL think of lesbianism as some sort of strange "enlightenment" to this day. We are more likely to stick to our principles and put more effort in because out of all women, we get screwed over the most in a patriarchy.

I dont think its wrong at all to think that one doesnt live in a patriarchy even though they live in the US. That still doesnt change the fact that men get paid more than women for the same work or that men hold more political and economic power. When I said "patriarchy" I dont mean only women living in a theocracy. You can still grow up with patriarchal concepts and ideas made by man- see religion and religious homophobia which can affect a persons daily life. Men are also physically stronger than women and can force themselves or their ideas onto them that way. No, I wouldnt compare it to someone's life in a different country tho because that is more extreme.

Part of why we keep getting called "mannish" by the straights because we dont benefit from adhering to their gender roles. The first thing a homophobic woman does is attack a lesbians relationship to womenhood because we are more comfortable not following the gender norms that they have set in place for themselves. We usually only use the term "gnc" to describe butches and studs among the lesbian community. But technically, we are ALL gender non-conforming by virtue of being homosexuals. It doesnt benefit us as much to play into gender, but it messes up straight women too, even tho many of them fight to keep the norms in place.

We were more capable of pointing out bs in the ways that straight women and men relate to one another since we arent them and dont want to be like them.