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[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 36 insightful - 5 fun36 insightful - 4 fun37 insightful - 5 fun -  (14 children)

This is only about one thing and one thing only: power. Something men will crawl on their stomachs for (or in the case of trans wear heels and a wig for) as long as it prevents women from wielding it.

[–]mvmlego 3 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 10 fun -  (13 children)

I don't see the connection. I'm aware that many of the policies which TRAs lobby for are harmful to women, but I don't see transwomen as necessarily intending to harm women. I think their motivations for declaring themselves women are some combination of 1) a desire to be subject to female stereotypes and gender roles rather than those of males, 2) body dysphoria akin to people with BIID, or 3) autogynophilia. I wouldn't characterize any of those three reasons as trying to prevent women from wielding power.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

On the off chance that you aren't a troll and just grossly misinformed:

Reason 1 (wanting to be subjected to female stereotypes and gender roles) is often motivated by AGP men who fetishize femininity and femaleness to a very dehumanizing degree. These men typically try to pressure lesbians into having sex with them because 'genital preferences are transphobic'. They attempt to strip women of bodily autonomy and the right to say no to sex.

They also, due to their fetishistic behavior, attempt to strip women of our humanity and person hood by reducing women to long hair, makeup, and other stereotypes that should've died in the 1950s. They are also the main ones who attempt to silence women for referring to our biology in the context of being female, or bring up that sexism is based on sex, not gender identity.

Reason 2 (dysphoria) is often the reason truscum trans people transition. The problem with this is that they tend to insist that they are 'female brained' due to certain behaviors and hobbies. This robs women of the power to be GNC and still be seen as women. This has been a huge problem for GNC people for a very long time and transwomen (trans people in general, but we're talking about transwomen right now) are setting us backwards by claiming a hatred of their bodies makes them women.

Reason 3 is directly tied to reason 1. All of these contribute to these men's attempts to bully women into silence, and get society as a whole to see women not as people, but a costume anyone can wear. Both of which are very obviously rooted in a desire to have power over women

[–]mvmlego 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (11 children)

On the off chance that you aren't a troll and just grossly misinformed

Right, of course those are the only two options. 🙄 Also, I'm curious: if what I wrote was indicative of trolling, then what would sincere disagreement look like to you?

There are few points of disagreement that I have with your comment, but I'll focus on this for now (since there's no point in typing out a full response if you're going to dismiss this comment as trolling):

Reason 1 is often motivated by AGP

Reason 3 is directly tied to reason 1.

Reasons (1) and (3) are actually very distinct. Autogynephilia is specifically a fetish--the payoff for giving into that impulse is psychologically-induced sexual arousal.* The potential payoffs for being subject to female gender roles and stereotypes are much broader--ranging from the practical and psychological benefits of being seen as non-threatening to the social and psychological benefits of having a highly empathetic friend group.

Plenty of trans people (though obviously far from all) take a rather liberal or libertarian (as opposed to hard-left) position on trans issues, in that they're not attempting to coerce people into conforming to their identity. If you'd like, I can link to examples of trans people extensively criticizing TRAs on these grounds. The notion that they're transitioning only as a roundabout way of making a power play on women by forcing lesbians to sleep with them is a gross caricature.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#Autogynephilia

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Reasons 1 and 3 are still related. Just because a dysphoric man's motivation can sometimes be different from an AGP's doesn't mean there's no overlap. There is quite a bit of overlap. I'm familiar with Blanchard's studies. AGPs experience arousal from performing activities they view as feminine, like knitting. Which spills over into their desire to be subjected to feminine gender roles and stereotypes.

practical and psychological benefits of being seen as non-threatening to the social and psychological benefits of having a highly empathetic friend group.

Being non-threatening and empathetic are not synonymous with feminine gender roles or being seen as a woman. This is entirely subjective. For example, many men see a woman's 'no' as a threat in any context, a challenge they must overcome either by force or coercion. To some people anytime a woman doesn't do what she's told it's seen as threatening.

Empathy is not a feminine thing and plenty of women don't possess an ounce of it. Anyone on r/raisedbynarcissists who had a narcissist for a mother will say as much.

Plenty of trans people (though obviously far from all) take a rather liberal or libertarian (as opposed to hard-left) position on trans issues, in that they're not attempting to coerce people into conforming to their identity.

I wouldn't say 'plenty' but I do agree they exist. Miranda Yardley and Fionne Orlander come to mind. However the presence of people like Miranda and Fionne who object to the madness doesn't suddenly erase the existence of the TRAs who continue pushing it. There are plenty of men who transition primarily out of fetish reasons and to pressure lesbians into sex. There are also plenty of men who transition as a power play to rewrite the definition of womanhood as a silencing tactic so they can freely be violent and throw slurs at anyone who disagrees (i.e all the 'punch/kill/choke TERFS') while getting support for it.

Mr. Philosophy Tube might not be that kind of transwoman. I never heard of him until he decided he was trans and I started seeing posts about it yesterday. But the fact of the matter remains that the violent types of transwomen do exist. And, by implying that his gender nonconformity makes him a woman, Mr. Philosophy Tube is feeding the idea that womanhood is a costume rather than a material reality. Which is part of a broader societal power play by itself that is dead set on not only silencing women, but also eradicating LGBs by transing the gay away, placing intersex people into a third sex category, and making already restrictive gender roles even more suffocating.

Going back to this:

I don't see transwomen as necessarily intending to harm women.

  1. No, not all. But there are plenty transwomen who do seek to harm women. 2. The ones who don't intend to do so are still contributing to it indirectly for the reasons I explained.

Your initial comment came across as very out of touch, considering this sub. Posts go up daily about trans people behaving in harmful ways, and a lot of it is intentional. I've heard comments very similar to yours from well meaning people who haven't read up on TRA logic and don't understand the implications of trans activism on single sex spaces, bodily autonomy, women's rights, and LGB rights. So to me, a genuine disagreement would have had more explanations as to why you don't think those three reasons would strip women of our power to varying degrees and in varying circumstances. You listed reasons men transition that many people here are already aware of, said you disagreed with the power play argument, but didn't bother to elaborate on why. You still haven't, really. You just defined AGP (which, again, most people here are well aware of) and linked the wiki page to it, then essentially said 'some trans people disagree with crazy TRAs'. No argument there, but those crazy TRAs are still out there. And even dysphoric, non AGP, non lesbian obsessed transwomen still perpetuate a mindset that is harmful to women overall (like Blaire White for example).

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Mr. Philosophy Tube might not be that kind of transwoman. I never heard of him until he decided he was trans and I started seeing posts about it yesterday.

He is very hypocritical about this too.

He said that "I am transwoman for a year now, but only in family, among friends and on streets, on my job and youtube I was presenting as a man". And then he was crying how transes are oppressed, when he literally was opting out of womanhood to get male privileges on work or youtube, and then going back to "being a woman".

As was said already - it is such a disgrace.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Gross, but unsurprising. His 'coming out' video was the only one of his I'd seen, and he came off as very full of himself. The way he spoke, the hands clasped and legs crossed to appear 'dainty'. Ugh.

It really is a disgrace.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

He had very hard time with being bisexual too and with fact that he prefers men, plus he was very friendly with ContraPoints (and few others who came out as trans in last few weeks).

So narcissism multiplied by self-homophobia multiplied by big trans as a friend and surrounded by transes - and here you go, coming out.

What bothers me here as well, except the usage of male privilege and opting out of womanhood when it is useful, is that he is pretty rich and that he was gender non-conforming and breaking stereotypes about how men should look, but as woman he is full of stereotypes, completely stereotypical clothing, drag queen voice, all this stereotypical mannerism and movement. Ugh.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What bothers me here as well, except the usage of male privilege and opting out of womanhood when it is useful, is that he is pretty rich and that he was gender non-conforming and breaking stereotypes about how men should look, but as woman he is full of stereotypes, completely stereotypical clothing, drag queen voice, all this stereotypical mannerism and movement. Ugh.

That's really disappointing. Instead of being a GNC role model for his viewers he chose to be a typical sexist, regressive, TRA talking head. I've been seeing tidbits that he's on 'TERF island' and that he's GC, but at this point I'm like. How? Like I said, I don't know much about him, but how can you be GC while calling yourself a woman because you have on a dress, makeup, long hair, and painted nails?

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Same happened with Jim Sterling and ContraPoints, they were gender non conforming bisexual men, who had issues with their own sexuality, and then came out as trans. CP even deleted all his videos before transition.

He is strongly anti-GC, not sure how anyone can say he is GC, lol. I mean he was against gender norms for men, I guess that is partially GC, but he is very pro-trans and he is Post Modernist who tries to look like Marxist (Marxism and PostModernism are mutually exclusive), so he is all about "feels" and "what is in head is real". I watched maybe 7-10 his videos at one point.