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[–]Rag3 65 insightful - 31 fun65 insightful - 30 fun66 insightful - 31 fun -  (16 children)

Everybody is a wooommmmmaaaaaaannnnnnnn. Except females.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 36 insightful - 5 fun36 insightful - 4 fun37 insightful - 5 fun -  (14 children)

This is only about one thing and one thing only: power. Something men will crawl on their stomachs for (or in the case of trans wear heels and a wig for) as long as it prevents women from wielding it.

[–]mvmlego 3 insightful - 10 fun3 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 10 fun -  (13 children)

I don't see the connection. I'm aware that many of the policies which TRAs lobby for are harmful to women, but I don't see transwomen as necessarily intending to harm women. I think their motivations for declaring themselves women are some combination of 1) a desire to be subject to female stereotypes and gender roles rather than those of males, 2) body dysphoria akin to people with BIID, or 3) autogynophilia. I wouldn't characterize any of those three reasons as trying to prevent women from wielding power.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

On the off chance that you aren't a troll and just grossly misinformed:

Reason 1 (wanting to be subjected to female stereotypes and gender roles) is often motivated by AGP men who fetishize femininity and femaleness to a very dehumanizing degree. These men typically try to pressure lesbians into having sex with them because 'genital preferences are transphobic'. They attempt to strip women of bodily autonomy and the right to say no to sex.

They also, due to their fetishistic behavior, attempt to strip women of our humanity and person hood by reducing women to long hair, makeup, and other stereotypes that should've died in the 1950s. They are also the main ones who attempt to silence women for referring to our biology in the context of being female, or bring up that sexism is based on sex, not gender identity.

Reason 2 (dysphoria) is often the reason truscum trans people transition. The problem with this is that they tend to insist that they are 'female brained' due to certain behaviors and hobbies. This robs women of the power to be GNC and still be seen as women. This has been a huge problem for GNC people for a very long time and transwomen (trans people in general, but we're talking about transwomen right now) are setting us backwards by claiming a hatred of their bodies makes them women.

Reason 3 is directly tied to reason 1. All of these contribute to these men's attempts to bully women into silence, and get society as a whole to see women not as people, but a costume anyone can wear. Both of which are very obviously rooted in a desire to have power over women

[–]mvmlego 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (11 children)

On the off chance that you aren't a troll and just grossly misinformed

Right, of course those are the only two options. 🙄 Also, I'm curious: if what I wrote was indicative of trolling, then what would sincere disagreement look like to you?

There are few points of disagreement that I have with your comment, but I'll focus on this for now (since there's no point in typing out a full response if you're going to dismiss this comment as trolling):

Reason 1 is often motivated by AGP

Reason 3 is directly tied to reason 1.

Reasons (1) and (3) are actually very distinct. Autogynephilia is specifically a fetish--the payoff for giving into that impulse is psychologically-induced sexual arousal.* The potential payoffs for being subject to female gender roles and stereotypes are much broader--ranging from the practical and psychological benefits of being seen as non-threatening to the social and psychological benefits of having a highly empathetic friend group.

Plenty of trans people (though obviously far from all) take a rather liberal or libertarian (as opposed to hard-left) position on trans issues, in that they're not attempting to coerce people into conforming to their identity. If you'd like, I can link to examples of trans people extensively criticizing TRAs on these grounds. The notion that they're transitioning only as a roundabout way of making a power play on women by forcing lesbians to sleep with them is a gross caricature.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#Autogynephilia

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Reasons 1 and 3 are still related. Just because a dysphoric man's motivation can sometimes be different from an AGP's doesn't mean there's no overlap. There is quite a bit of overlap. I'm familiar with Blanchard's studies. AGPs experience arousal from performing activities they view as feminine, like knitting. Which spills over into their desire to be subjected to feminine gender roles and stereotypes.

practical and psychological benefits of being seen as non-threatening to the social and psychological benefits of having a highly empathetic friend group.

Being non-threatening and empathetic are not synonymous with feminine gender roles or being seen as a woman. This is entirely subjective. For example, many men see a woman's 'no' as a threat in any context, a challenge they must overcome either by force or coercion. To some people anytime a woman doesn't do what she's told it's seen as threatening.

Empathy is not a feminine thing and plenty of women don't possess an ounce of it. Anyone on r/raisedbynarcissists who had a narcissist for a mother will say as much.

Plenty of trans people (though obviously far from all) take a rather liberal or libertarian (as opposed to hard-left) position on trans issues, in that they're not attempting to coerce people into conforming to their identity.

I wouldn't say 'plenty' but I do agree they exist. Miranda Yardley and Fionne Orlander come to mind. However the presence of people like Miranda and Fionne who object to the madness doesn't suddenly erase the existence of the TRAs who continue pushing it. There are plenty of men who transition primarily out of fetish reasons and to pressure lesbians into sex. There are also plenty of men who transition as a power play to rewrite the definition of womanhood as a silencing tactic so they can freely be violent and throw slurs at anyone who disagrees (i.e all the 'punch/kill/choke TERFS') while getting support for it.

Mr. Philosophy Tube might not be that kind of transwoman. I never heard of him until he decided he was trans and I started seeing posts about it yesterday. But the fact of the matter remains that the violent types of transwomen do exist. And, by implying that his gender nonconformity makes him a woman, Mr. Philosophy Tube is feeding the idea that womanhood is a costume rather than a material reality. Which is part of a broader societal power play by itself that is dead set on not only silencing women, but also eradicating LGBs by transing the gay away, placing intersex people into a third sex category, and making already restrictive gender roles even more suffocating.

Going back to this:

I don't see transwomen as necessarily intending to harm women.

  1. No, not all. But there are plenty transwomen who do seek to harm women. 2. The ones who don't intend to do so are still contributing to it indirectly for the reasons I explained.

Your initial comment came across as very out of touch, considering this sub. Posts go up daily about trans people behaving in harmful ways, and a lot of it is intentional. I've heard comments very similar to yours from well meaning people who haven't read up on TRA logic and don't understand the implications of trans activism on single sex spaces, bodily autonomy, women's rights, and LGB rights. So to me, a genuine disagreement would have had more explanations as to why you don't think those three reasons would strip women of our power to varying degrees and in varying circumstances. You listed reasons men transition that many people here are already aware of, said you disagreed with the power play argument, but didn't bother to elaborate on why. You still haven't, really. You just defined AGP (which, again, most people here are well aware of) and linked the wiki page to it, then essentially said 'some trans people disagree with crazy TRAs'. No argument there, but those crazy TRAs are still out there. And even dysphoric, non AGP, non lesbian obsessed transwomen still perpetuate a mindset that is harmful to women overall (like Blaire White for example).

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Mr. Philosophy Tube might not be that kind of transwoman. I never heard of him until he decided he was trans and I started seeing posts about it yesterday.

He is very hypocritical about this too.

He said that "I am transwoman for a year now, but only in family, among friends and on streets, on my job and youtube I was presenting as a man". And then he was crying how transes are oppressed, when he literally was opting out of womanhood to get male privileges on work or youtube, and then going back to "being a woman".

As was said already - it is such a disgrace.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Gross, but unsurprising. His 'coming out' video was the only one of his I'd seen, and he came off as very full of himself. The way he spoke, the hands clasped and legs crossed to appear 'dainty'. Ugh.

It really is a disgrace.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

He had very hard time with being bisexual too and with fact that he prefers men, plus he was very friendly with ContraPoints (and few others who came out as trans in last few weeks).

So narcissism multiplied by self-homophobia multiplied by big trans as a friend and surrounded by transes - and here you go, coming out.

What bothers me here as well, except the usage of male privilege and opting out of womanhood when it is useful, is that he is pretty rich and that he was gender non-conforming and breaking stereotypes about how men should look, but as woman he is full of stereotypes, completely stereotypical clothing, drag queen voice, all this stereotypical mannerism and movement. Ugh.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What bothers me here as well, except the usage of male privilege and opting out of womanhood when it is useful, is that he is pretty rich and that he was gender non-conforming and breaking stereotypes about how men should look, but as woman he is full of stereotypes, completely stereotypical clothing, drag queen voice, all this stereotypical mannerism and movement. Ugh.

That's really disappointing. Instead of being a GNC role model for his viewers he chose to be a typical sexist, regressive, TRA talking head. I've been seeing tidbits that he's on 'TERF island' and that he's GC, but at this point I'm like. How? Like I said, I don't know much about him, but how can you be GC while calling yourself a woman because you have on a dress, makeup, long hair, and painted nails?

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 61 insightful - 12 fun61 insightful - 11 fun62 insightful - 12 fun -  (46 children)

Lmao, I am so not surprised.

He, Jim Sterling and Contra were close friends, and all 3 came out as women or "non-binary" women now. All bisexual men, who were gender non-conforming last 5+ years.

And I am a bit sad about it, actually. In his videos, when he found out he is bisexual and said he was for years fighting his love for men and he hated himself for it, and then came out as bisexual half a year ago. Then he started to be friends with Jim and Contra, and now seems he is fighting that self hate of bisexuality under the Contra influence became "I guess I am woman really". Jim came out as "non-binary woman" just two weeks ago, after meeting with Contra too.

This ideology is just gay convversion therapy and extremely homophobic and biphobic.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 52 insightful - 8 fun52 insightful - 7 fun53 insightful - 8 fun -  (4 children)

And such sexist looks too. Like he was wearing dresses and he was pretty open in his clothing, but when "I am woman" - instantly went super stereotypical, and with such voice change too. It is both infuriating and sad.

[–]julesburm1891 35 insightful - 6 fun35 insightful - 5 fun36 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

It was so melodramatic. I felt like I was watching a parody of an overacted black and white film.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 37 insightful - 5 fun37 insightful - 4 fun38 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

When he was a man he felt so comfortable on breaking stereotypes, wearing cloths and acting non-stereotypically for a man. And now he is "a woman" and acts so stereotypically, wear so stereotypical cloths, make up, this voice and maneurism mimicing stereotypical woman. It is disgrace.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 30 insightful - 4 fun30 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Actors are notoriously unstable. I wouldn't be surprised if this was originally a role gone too far.

[–]mvmlego 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I think the motivation for that is that they know they don't really look or sound quite like women, in the sense of having too angular a face or too deep a voice, so they feel that they need to compensate for that by acting feminine in every way they're biologically capable of.

...and yeah, it results in them looking and sounding like a really cringey caricature.

[–][deleted] 35 insightful - 3 fun35 insightful - 2 fun36 insightful - 3 fun -  (26 children)

As a women I find it bizarre. I watched the first few minutes of the video and then I picked one of his videos from two years ago and I couldn't honestly say that this guy is particularly feminine or effeminate. I've met guys in real life like him too. They're not effeminate in how they behave or think and then suddenly they're a "woman" and you're meant to treat them like a woman. It's jarring. I went to school with a guy who was effeminate and this ain't that. I'm not going to sit down and have a conversation with this guy about the stuff I would talk to most girls about - like trash tv, or gossip a bit. I remember trying to open up to one about a difficult experience (we had both gone through similar experiences) and they weren't empathetic in the way that I would expect a woman to be. It was like reading those posts in r/relationships where they tell the guy that when girls tell them about their problems most of the time they don't want them to be 'fixed' they want a bit of empathy and then light bulbs go off in these dudes' heads. But back to my point - these guys aren't effeminate, they don't behave or think much like women. As I women I have no idea how to interact with them. I don't know how to connect with them or trust them like I would with a woman.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 44 insightful - 5 fun44 insightful - 4 fun45 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

Well, most statistics and studies are showing, that they still have male patterns of behaviour, male patterns of crimes and male socialization in majority of their actions. So only "feminine" thing they have - is sexist stereotypes on "how woman should look visually".

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 30 insightful - 3 fun30 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

There was a brilliant post on Tumblr I found which highlighted the fact that a lot, and I mean A LOT of incarcerated killers and rapists become transwomen. It was a fuckton of cases. I'm gonna look for it if it hadn't been nuked yet.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 31 insightful - 6 fun31 insightful - 5 fun32 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

It is because "transwoman" now includes crossdressers, transvestites and everyone on Earth. Around third of all serial killers were cross-dressers, by new definition of trans - they all were transwomen. Half of serial rapists were cross-dressers and often AGP as well. So nothing strange that they are all included after "trans" category was broadened.

[–]fuck_reddit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That’s really interesting! Do you have any studies or news stories that have more information about this. I’d love to read more.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You mean about serial killers and serial rapists? I've read that long before transgender craze, so I did not even knew how it will be related. So I don't think I will find it now. If googling will not help (as Google is pro-trans lobby, like if you write on youtube comment "gender identity" and some bad word in same phrase - comment will be automatically removed), try searching in duckduckgo instead then.

In UK prisons in 2018, transwomen imprisoned for sexual assault were 44-48% of all (70-72 of 150), while regular men only 20-22%, so twice as much. Part of them transitioned after getting into prison, thought, but still.

On Wikipedia there was list of transvestites serial killers, but because transvestites are now part of transgenders, it was renamed and then removed from site.

Found funny link from 2012: https://www.usmarshals.gov/foia/Reading_Room_Information/Publications/transvestic_fetishism.pdf

It is kinda hard to find anything now, as it is all now filled with "JK Rowling cross dressing serial killer is her transphobia" and so on.

[–]fuck_reddit 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah... ironically, if they made a distinction between transvestites and transgender people (cause there does seem to be a difference), then they wouldn't have to worry about this issue. But, the "lady" doth protest too much, methinks... The fact that they feel so "attacked" by JKR for her recent book demonstrates to me that they are more similar to the killer than they'd like to admit. (Not to say that they are serial killers, but that they are more AGP than dysphoric).

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don't even distinguish between non-binary & binary & they are like polar opposites in many ways. There is also a massive chasm of differences between the homosexual ones & the heterosexual ones. Most "trans kids" are gay, most trans adults are heterosexual (often shifting into bisexuality when they transition, even without hormones). The brain differences are only in the homosexual ones, because they are the same brain differences all homosexuals have compared to heterosexuals.

"Transgender" isn't an identity, it's a phase that predominantly affects gay children, which is why promoting the idea of trans children is just makeshift conversion therapy. Up to 95% desist if left to their own devices, but when they are put on puberty blockers the desistance rate drops to just 2%! Cross-gender self-identification is the phase, transition is the name of the conversion therapy method.

Here is the source for the 25% of serial killers cross-dressing, so a quarter of all novels could feature them & still wouldn't be demonstration, just accurate representation:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.457.3731&rep=rep1&type=pdf

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s really interesting! Do you have any studies or news stories that have more information about this. I’d love to read more.

Not who you were asking, of course, but I also remember reading about this years ago, pertaining to (male) serial killers.

Apparently, it's common for them to dress in drag, specifically as the women/girls whom they plan to kill (or have killed), and pose like something out of a crime-scene photo: bound, hanging, seemingly dead, etc. Whatever they fantasize about doing to their victims. (They spend so much time and energy fantasizing about their crimes-- rapists are the same way-- that some experts think the main purpose of committing them is to provide fuel for these fantasies.) It's to the point that, when trying to catch a serial killer, law enforcement looks for sales of man-sized women's clothing. Tracing these will often lead them to the murderer.

This seems like a really important manifestation of men-imagining-themselves-as-women-ism, because it's so characteristic of men who-- I think it's safe to say-- do NOT like or respect women. And the rah-rah-transwomen attitude that we see today (especially among females) seems predicated on the assumption that men who impersonate us necessarily do; indeed, must. How dare women doubt it! Why would anybody want to be someone whom they regard as inferior, even deserving of abuse and violence? Probably seems absurd to these TWAW-ers... but not to the people who've seen all the me-as-female-corpse pics that serial killers take of themselves.

Can't recall exactly what books I got this from, but pretty sure that at least one of John E. Douglas's must have been among them. Possibly also Dark Dreams by Roy Hazelwood (2001). And the so-called BTK killer (may he rot in hell) was definitely an example of the phenomenon.

[–]Franklintheturtle 26 insightful - 7 fun26 insightful - 6 fun27 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

I saw a recent video of an anime Youtuber whose videos I'd come across a few years ago. He was a very stereotypical guy in the videos, but in the more recent one he was in like a women's business suit, to do a video about anime ships. Turns out he came out as trans. Even now, the only thing stereotypically feminine about him is the way he dresses.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. As a women it feels bizarre. I can see through it because I'm a women and I have had female friends, relatives, relationships all my life; but I'm expected to go along with the charade. Generally I have enough empathy for these guys to go along with it but I still have boundaries and my kindness definitely isn't limited.

[–]powpowpowpow 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to watch him from time to time and when I saw him in that suit I thought he was doing it for a joke? Since it was obviously a male in a wig... but apparantly not. I'm sad now.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 10 insightful - 8 fun10 insightful - 7 fun11 insightful - 8 fun -  (12 children)

The only trans I ever known in real life was homosexual. He was effeminate till very young. Of course, something makes me wonder whether the fact he is from some little sicilian town where homosexuality isn't welcomed, has to do with not just being gay, but it was always effeminate by nature, way more feminine than me. The way he moved her ass was better than 90 percent of women. That's was real effeminate brain. And as usual, real effeminate brain are homosexual.

[–]ColoredTwice 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

No man can have hip sway like woman, we have biologically different bones in that part. Our pelvis is much more wide than men's pelvis and leg bones are connected into loose joints on bigger angle, while men's are connected on fixed joints on much lower angle. When woman makes one step - pelvis on one side goes down and forward, on other side goes up and backwards because of that, so each side makes full circle. When man makes a step - pelvis and leg bones are not moving at all. That is one of reasons why men are much faster at running - just bone structure already making it easier to walk or run to them, and it is not even counting more strenght they have.

That is why it is almost always easy to distinguish between man and woman gaits. Transition "to other gender" is not changing pelvis, joints and bones - so everything is staying same as of a man.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

His hips where wide, He had pear shaped body and feminine movement and mannerism. It was so natural to him. He couldn't act masculine, since he was very young kid, always into dressing as a woman. That was natural femininity. And in fact he was homo, not hetero.

[–]ColoredTwice 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What you described is just performative - it has nothing to do with skeletal structure. We can't change how our bones, joints and skeletal structure are. It is just how two sexest are born - it is inherent structure of our bodies that is different between sexes and can't be changed. Even muscles around our hips are placed differently in men's and women's bodies. There a lot of such small differences which are structural and can't be changed.

Same as lungs or hearts of same size and height man and woman would be different size and shape. Men's would be bigger/larger. This can't be changed by taking cross sex hormones or by "performin femininity". It is just basic structure of body.

Here, short video someone recently posted about gait and pelvis bones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZrNLagwls

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Could be Klinefelters

[–]ColoredTwice 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It could be, but I doubt. It rare condition and among people with DSD only 1% or less are trans, so it makes such situation even less possible.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

I never said he had female body. I said he had natural female mannerism. Very extremely feminine. He was extremely young when it started to show such femininity. He couldn't be done on purpose. It was his nature.

[–]ColoredTwice 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are saying that "acting like female" and "feminine mannerism" is biological? It kinda...sexist - against this feminists were fighting for decades, as women can be different and we are not some sexist stereotype. While TRA now are trying to say that all sexist stereotypes are natural and biological.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

All women are different, that's doesn't means masculininity and feminity cannot be innate. There are biological sexual difference. TRA don't accept a masculine woman or a feminine man. This you must fit the stereotype or behaviour expected by your sex. It's very different thing.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It sounds like you met the opposite type of who I met then :) I've met some effeminate gay men (as acquaintances) and you could tell they were effeminate in how they communicated and behaved. Not exactly like women but women like. I imagine your friend would have been at the extreme end of that. And that is what I though all trans were like. It shocked me when this guy came out, I was puzzled because they weren't effeminate, most of their friends were guys, they liked doing the same stuff as your average guy. That twigged me onto Blanchard's typology and I realised the source of distress for this person came from a very different place to your friend.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I got to know a real trans. The harmless one who is a female best friend because he acts a lot like a girl and would never fit with guys, not the perv presenting as a lesbian.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Practically every culture outside the West labels their homosexual population something other than man or woman (because of their reproductive centred gender roles I guess which gay people fall outside of), then our Western eyes look at the phenomenon & deduce that they are "transexuals", "women", "third gender". Even though 100% of them are gay & half of them are masculine-presenting. Just more of this gender-obsession erasing gay people basically.

Only Western cultures produce the autogynaephiles, the heterosexual ones who tend to be the most dogmatic, insisting that they are literally, biologically the same as women. Probably because the middle-classes tend to be neurotic.

[–]fuck_reddit 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know a guy like that, 6’3” and ripped. Suddenly announced he’s a woman and wants to wear dresses/make-up. He’s ruined most of his friendships in the meantime cause of the way he’s treating everyone around him.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Honestly, as much as I used to like this guys (Oliver Thorns) videos, his tone, voice and choice of words always bothered the heck out of me. He sounds like a smug bastard in every one of them, like he's so completely full of himself I wouldn't be surprised if he had narcissistic tendencies.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 26 insightful - 4 fun26 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

his tone, voice and choice of words always bothered the heck out of me

He few times in videos said that his video-material and words chosen are in a way so people much easier believe what he is saying. Basically he said he is using propagandist works to make his videos more successful and bring him more money. It is kinda funny, because he proclaims to be marxist and socialist, but at same time he is fine on abusing people for personal gain, which is opposite of socialism, and he is not believing in material reality of oppression by becoming transwoman, which is opposite of marxism (as marxism is based on physical reality and ignores any identity and "feels").

I wouldn't be surprised if he had narcissistic tendencies.

Well, he transitioned and now want world focus attention on him, and to get access to female spaces. So there is a lot of narcissism.

[–]mvmlego 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

That's a rather rosy notion of socialism, which necessarily involves abusing the most productive members of society for the (short-term) personal gain of others--just ask the Kulaks.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Well, it is how people who are promoting communism or socialism are acting, but not how it is supposed to be by ideology itself. Instead of being "capitalism for all" they are becoming "capitalism for us, and rest are like slaves working for us".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

[–]mvmlego 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If Marxism is a descriptive theory rather than an ideal (i.e. if Marxism is based on physical reality and ignores identity or "feels"), then we should be concerned with the results that attempts to implement it actually produce--which in each and every case, has been a horror that costs millions of lives, and often tens of millions.

EDIT: It's also worth emphasizing that, according to the article you linked to, Lenin regarded state capitalism as the second-to-last step in a society's transformation into the Marxist-Lenenist utopia. This is important, because even if it's not "true socialism", it's not a complete aberration of socialist ideals, either; it's a necessary step in the process of socialist revolutions. Consequently, it still lays the tens of millions of deaths of Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, and Venezuelans at the feet of socialism.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am pretty sure no ideology makes complete sense or any sense at all.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

'Ideology' according to marxism describes the opposite of marxism: false consciousness, cultural hegemony.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He likens being a man like being in a job you don't like, then argues that the only way he can be happy is if we re-define woman to include him – he's narcissistic alright. It's like these people have never been through puberty.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 9 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I love how passionate you are. It's really aphrodisiac

[–]marmorsymphata 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Jim Sterling

God fucking damn it seriously?

So his misogyny takedown videos are trash now. Awesome. Well done

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They always were trash, he is long time attacking "terf island", "JK Rowling" and so on.

[–]marmorsymphata 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Must have been all after I stopped watching, it's been a few years since I decided the loot box vids were repetitive

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

They must resist his allure! Because Contra doesn't seem to be a very good influence on other youtube influencers. Idk though, I could never get through one of his looong-ass videos to make that judgement for myself.

Jim- I thought he made videos about games and drama with gloves on. What is he doing transing himself? Another one I could never bring myself to watch all the way through.

I don't know much about Philosophy Tube(damn he look like Trudeau). But I got a Contra vibe from his video thumbnails already. I only know that this social contagion called 'Transition' has gotta stop. It's at best a fad, and at worst, it'll bring social progress back 50 years. Why are bi males so susceptible?

Anyway, this whole thing reminds me of what I heard in a podcast about how trans ideology infection is like one of those old twilight zone episodes, where everyone in the small town the protagonist is in is suddenly trans or TRA. The main character runs around, desperately seeking help from a sane individual- any sane individual to make sense of things, and finally it seems they find someone who shares their suspicion that the town had gone absolutely mad, only to watch in horror as that very same person proclaims their own gender dysphoria and transitions before their eyes.

"No! Oliver- Not you too!"

[–]julesburm1891 42 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Do heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals and bisexuals in the LGBTQ movement yet?

Probably. It seems like the majority of T are straight people now. Q is pretty much entirely straight people who want to feel special.

Honestly, this just makes me feel sad for straight women. Apparently, there’s a whole lot of dudes out there who are into weird shit and have messed up views of women while maintaining some facade of normalcy. By the time they get to lesbians, we can see they’re a creep, but straight women aren’t getting the billboard about it until it’s too late.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 31 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If you ever want to lose faith in mankind, spend some time in /r/femaledatingstrategy. The examples of men shown there are soooo bad. Like I'm talking, some of these men don't even wipe their butts after they poop. Despite the name, the whole undercurrent of that sub is basically 'men are garbage, you're better off alone.' I believe there is an epidemic of men out there who are dead on the inside, addicted to porn and video games, and their brains are so fried because (I don't know how to explain this scientifically, but like, the way their brain processes stimulus and pleasure is completely fucked up due to porn addiction) they aren't able to love or be in a stable relationship or be any sort of decent father to their children.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love FDS! It gives me hope in humanity, the female half. Manospherians infiltrate mainstream groups & try to spread the idea that FDS is transphobic, in order to get people behind banning it, like they did with r/PinkPillFeminism. Neither sub either discussed the trans issue.

[–]Rag3 25 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

They’re still on the TQ= the new gay rights / civil rights 2.0 train + porn is amazing train. There are going to be a lot of hurt straight women who are in "lesbian" relationships.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 21 insightful - 6 fun21 insightful - 5 fun22 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe in the next 20 years, it might become normal for straight single moms to start living together and raising their kids together. Who needs a limp-dick man-baby in the house when you can have two women who are working hard and getting shit done?

[–]BEB 21 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Seriously - all the Progressive straight women embracing TWAW to prove that they've still got it going on should be forced over to the Reddit transgender subs like this one to see what all those "I just wanna pee" lads really have in mind:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransLater/

[–]mvmlego 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

From what I remember of Lisa Littman's and Abigail Shrier's research, the rate of young women identifying as trans or queer is drastically outpacing the rate of young men identifying as trans or queer (even though those stats used to be reversed). Consequently, the TQ+ craze is actually impacting the dating pool for straight men more so than for straight women.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most people are straight though. It must mostly impact lesbians, because lesbians keep identifying as "men" & men keep identifying as lesbians.

But yeah, the phenomenon Shrier & Littman refer to is what has introduced a heap of heterosexuals girls into the trans population. It's become a sub-culture.

[–][deleted] 37 insightful - 2 fun37 insightful - 1 fun38 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Here is their coming out post on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1355577911949070341

Feels like the exact same as Page's, in all honesty. Has the exact same angle of "trans people literally have a 27182818284590% unemployment and domestic violence rate compared to every other marginalised group on the planet". And also dropping a "trans people have always existed" - Jesus Christ, there is a massive uptick in trans people as it is, and they are still a pretty damn small minority. Am I genuinely meant to believe that trans people have been fighting for their rights since the dawn of time despite there being almost zero historical evidence of it? Compared to the amount we have for homosexuality?

Replies are a cesspit as expected.

[–]hellonumpty 30 insightful - 5 fun30 insightful - 4 fun31 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

https://twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1355577911949070341

Did he....really just compare having access to abortions "which are permanent" to puberty blockers "which are reservable" ??

What the fuck.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They're just rewriting history 1984 style.

[–]supersmokio6420 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

The conspiracy theories about the so-called trans lobby are antiemetic now to boot!

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

antiemetic

I don't know about this one. Have you seen a picture of Jennifer Pritzker?

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 32 insightful - 6 fun32 insightful - 5 fun33 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

That outfit... the mannerisms... the voice... It feels like a parody. Like he's wearing a naughty librarian costume and mocking women.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 22 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

He's an actor by trade. So, that's what's he's doing here. Acting.

[–]SillyMoneyGoose 20 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

That’s exactly what I was thinking watching that video. A bad actor, too

[–]BigMommyMilkersYes, they're real 30 insightful - 4 fun30 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

AGP.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 21 insightful - 6 fun21 insightful - 5 fun22 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

Contra has dipped his smelly fingers in this I feel.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 35 insightful - 5 fun35 insightful - 4 fun36 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

Contra, him and few other youtubers all were close friends, and one after one they all are coming out as trans. So it is just a group of friends one by one buying into what other of them are saying.

And coming out messages are all so non-personal. Almost like they are copypasted, and reminds me about Ellen Page came out letter too. When she came out as lesbian, it was so personal, all about her feelings and her love to women, but coming out as trans so genderic, all about "transwomen of color being killed in Brazil", and nothing personal.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

YES! That is also something I've noticed. Every coming out talks about trans people like they're a unified religion and one must preach it's gospel when one joins it's ranks. I'm definitely not seeing personal development in any of them. If anything, I'm seeing people who are giving in to pressure.

[–]bopomofodojo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Almost sounds like a cult initiation. There is nothing personal at all, only the dogma.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Let's play a game of 'Is Trans A Cult'? Which of the following characteristics of a cult does the trans circle check off?

Based on pseudoscience? Check!

Spreads it's messages through dogmatic slogans? Check!

Preys mainly on the mentally ill and children? Check!

Markets itself as a solution to all your problems if only you follow it? Check!

Encourages cutting off contact with friends or family members who may doubt it? Check!

Encourages a false sense of pride in it's followers as well as shunning those who oppose it? Check!

Initiation into it includes a ritual of rebirth / destruction of one's past? Check!

Rewrites history to fit the agenda? Check!

Encourages it's followers to alter their appearance, sometimes permanently? Check!

Validates it's own existence through martyrdom? Check!

Encourages group think instead of individual thought? Check!

Appropriates popular culture? Check!

Consumes and all encompasses one's person hood to the point where one's entire life starts revolving around it? Check!

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[–]Rag3 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This! So true at how they’ve spouted the same rhetoric while claiming to have a personal experience of "growth and self discovery".

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 20 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I just watched video response to it, and noticed even worse part.

PhilosophyTube saying that "I am transwoman already for one year everywhere in family and real life, but not came out as transwoman on youtube and my job".

It is so triggering. He is literally saying "I am woman, but to get better revenue and chances I am presenting as man on job" - no woman have such ability to "roll back to being man to get better chances on getting hired and on getting higher salary" to then "return to being woman again" later. And then they are saying they are not privileged and suffering more than women. Such a hypocrites.

[–]blackrainbow 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This! Their "coming out" is just a piece of propaganda. It's a cult!

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 27 insightful - 10 fun27 insightful - 9 fun28 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

I remember watching some of his vids a long, long while back and finding them pretty insightful. Then the one about "transphobia" came out and in it, the guy, with not a hint of irony, said that "we can't sex ppl by genitals because a man could lose his penis in an accident, what does that make him then hmmm???"

Here's the answer I spoke at the computer screen, before noping out of his channel forever, and I will repeat it here: A. DICKLESS. GUY. Or, in other words, him now :)

[–]powpowpowpow 29 insightful - 4 fun29 insightful - 3 fun30 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The way he and contrapoints talk is so irritating and I can't seem to identify why. It feels like I'm being mocked by them and the condescending tone doesn't help.

Why do they feel like impersonating every female stereotype? And the audacity to call himself a FEMALE...

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, me too! I've mentioned it on this thread in another comment. It basically just their extreme feeling of superiority over the "non-believers" that's showing.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 24 insightful - 8 fun24 insightful - 7 fun25 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

He is a lot better at "acting" like a man than like a woman

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And he was trying to break sexist stereotypes about men, when "was a man". While when "being a woman" he is reinforcing stereotypes instead. Such a disgrace.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

For Christ's sake.

[–]SillyMoneyGoose 21 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, I don’t know if it’s for the way he talks or what, he looks to me like a people person exploiting the experience of minorities to be more popular in his circle. Or to get over an existential crisis or something. Not someone who is being themselves without limitations for the first time, more like someone who is creating a new identity and trying it on like a dress

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Well, the entirety of his ilk aka. "the enlightened left" are just a big circlejerk of oneupmanship in who can be the most oppressed. I'm sure Thorn will still be crying his eyes out every night for being white and British. If he wasn't, he would have milked those brownie points too.

[–]gergwefdfv1 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

He was a commie urban guy but now that he's a woman he dresses like a sexy traditional secretary, wears leggings and covers his mouth to laugh? That's not "being a woman", that's mimicry. He's just mimicking what he's sexually attracted to.

He's surrounded by a culture that hates white men. So much so he had to dedicate more than half his video to black women. This fills him with anxiety and self-hatred, and it broke him down. He claims it was painful and stressful.

Usually when people are overwhelmed with anxiety they go through an ego death and are a bit mentally renewed and relieved. Cults exploit this to built a person. They exploit people who are on the verge of breaking to give them a "rebirth" where they can let all their anxiety out and become loyal members of the cult. Look at how genuinely he says he's much more happy and relieved now, all because he put on a fetish gear and started doing roleplay.

More evidence of that is the social proximity of him and other transsexuals, like Tim and Contrapoints. Just like the brothers who directed the matrix, what a coincidence that someone who's a magical snowflake is in a social circle filled with other also magical snowflakes! Or what's more likely, it's just the phenomena of social contagion and "trans" is a cult and not a real biological trait like being homosexual which is shown to be linked with facial features, genes, pregnancy abnormalities, and hormonal glans problems the mother has while gestating.

Now he's no longer the demonic white man who needs to be replaced in every country, he's one of the special ones, he's part of the revolutionary tribe, part of the oppressed. All his anxiety is gone and now there's no internal conflict between his hatred for white men and white society and his existence.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, this is not a man who has become a better version of himself. It's a rat, willing to bite it's own tail off to escape the trap that caught it. Thorn has made videos admitting he tried to take his own life in the past. He has a history of severe mental issues which is fairly common in trans people. Mentally ill people are known to be easily groomed by cults because of their brittle sense of self and virtually zero psychological barriers against outside pressure. His transition is almost tragic when viewed from this angle.

[–]oyasuminasai50 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How can you spend decades of your life as one gender and then claim you're actually the other?

[–]marmorsymphata 9 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

So he manicures his beard every day, even for this very video and he wants us to think he's really a woman and experiences pain from maleness. SURE JAN

[–]Socialjustus 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Counter-intuitively, smart people are actually the most susceptible to brainwashing and other shit like this because they have the capacity to convince themselves of literally anything.

[–]mvmlego 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I've seen his thumbnails in my recommendations a couple of times, but I know absolutely nothing about him--and now I'm even less likely to watch anything by him in the future. For those of you who have seen some of his videos, though, what do you think? Is his stuff any good?

[–]bopomofodojo 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Pretty standard Breadtube stuff. SJW leftism topics, etc. It's bland and boring, kinda like Contra and the like.

[–]DestructionI ❤️ adult human females 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Accurate description. I'll add extremely smug and self-righteous to the mix.

[–]mvmlego 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Ah, so it's always been pretty openly political? That's disappointing for a channel called PhilsophyTube, since philosophy encompasses a lot of interesting topics that have nothing to do with politics. Also, I'd never heard the term "Breadtube" before. Thanks for the info.