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[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

  1. I think the terms are fine and they have a specific use. Not every guy is going to be attracted to every body type and having a lexicon to make it easier to sift through who you find potential mutual attraction is a great way to not waste your own time. I describe myself both as a cub (because I'm overweight and hairy) and a top (because I'm the penetrative partner during anal sex). These terms are related to material reality. Certain terms I get annoyed at other people using, but understand that they aren't just limited to gay male lexicon. However, terms like twink as well as positional sex roles get me more irritated because they have specific meanings that get diluted when used by others.

  2. Our treatment of GNC men is complicated. I may return to this question when I finish answering the rest (or edit it later).

  3. I've gone through phases of liking certain stereotypical things. Drag remains one of those things that I continue to enjoy (depending on the performer) because it's an opportunity to support other gay man directly (via tips). Not every stereotypical hobby or interest applies to every gay man. I've been working these past couples years to push myself to explore the hobbies or interests I always wanted to take up and find an internal sense of validation to do so.

  4. HIV & STI prevention that focuses on condom use; predatory older men; drug use and it's impact on our spaces; saying no to queer theory peddlers who try and involve themselves in our events, spaces, and resources.

  5. I don't feel like I'm a part of the larger community as a gay man. I've worked in some gay male spaces and felt supported by my employers (gay and bi men), but felt attacked by "the other letters." A lot of this has to do with the fact that everyone tries to barge in and access these spaces. It often feels like gay men are expected to build and create everything for everyone, but never create anything exclusive for ourselves. I also feel like the other letters facilitate the discourse in academic settings and gay men have to endure the consequences. For example, Michel Foucault and Queer Theory. Why is this the only gay male perspective that gets taught when we are brought up? Why is it that we are not allowed to have another voice? Why do we always have to be presented as monolithic? If you are a lesbian or bisexual person in a teaching position in academia, why are you not qualifying what is in the course material with the fact that many gay men, even those outside of academia, disagree with this tool and think he's a creep?

  6. I'm going to focus on the "gayden" part because I have more to say. I think these girls/women are creepy and predatory. I think that their harassment of gay boys and men is pushing us out of our own spaces, ones that many of us still need, and into darker corners. I feel especially sorry for and gay teenager stuck in high school right now because he'll be dealing with these clowns and that alienation in GSAs is going to send him out seeking adult spaces in hopes of finding other normie gay teens.

  7. I tend to prefer hook-ups to dating. In dating, people put on facades. In hooking up, most guys will reveal the worst aspects of themselves so you get a feel for who they really are as a person. I don't feel like the "male" and "female" roles are as common in same-sex relationships among gay men. I feel like they can fluctuate. However, I feel like socialization around straight women often leads to gay men internalizing aspects of the "female role" in dating and failing to realize why this doesn't lead to a second or third date. My best relationship was with a closeted bi guy because our dates were actually fun and I didn't feel like I had to lead everything. My worst were with guys who said they "had fun" but were shocked when I told them I didn't because I felt like I was hauling ass throughout the entire thing only to get a stank face in response.

  8. I think it's stupid.

  9. Queer is stupid and meaningless- it relies on you observing the behaviour of the person to establish what they really mean. "F...t" I find offensive- I can take a drag queen using the term to be edgy, but everyone else can keep it out of their mouths. "Sassy" I feel is more applied to black women, so it isn't our term to use or be concerned about. "Homo" I hear less often. "Homosexual" I used to feel was a cringy when used because it sounded very medical, but as I've seen the word gay get diluted I understand the need for it to establish what I actually am. "Gay" see the previous. "Gaybie" is stupid. "Same-sex attracted" I'm fine with. "TEHM" I think was a cringy way for gaydens to try and insult gay men and I find it funny seeing gay men reclaim it.

  10. I don't deal with as much discrimination as I used to. As an adult, most of the discrimination I experience has to do with being held to a higher standard in the workplace. It's often covert, and I see it applied to lesbians, too. In one workplace I was in, a straight woman in the office I worked in would routinely complain about how "slow" the lesbian woman was at doing her job (manual labour, had a bum knee but still pushed herself hard) and about how one gay guy in the IT department didn't know what his job was (he wasn't trained but was trying his best to fix every issue presented to him). This was a woman who spent all day browsing Amazon/doing little if anything productive. The discrimination I see most of us facing as adults centers around our labour and time being devalued and the idea that we aren't employable or deserving of employment.

  11. The most annoying one is the pedophilia stereotype. I know for a damn fact that I am not one and that the vast majority of gay men are not either. I think this has contributed to a lot of the problems we face in building up spaces for our youth because many gay men are afraid of accusations for wanting to work with/help children and teens. Even those that do (such as teachers) remain closeted when gay teenagers need a level-headed mentor and not some Jeffree Star type to parasocially groom them.

  12. I'm pro gay marriage. I don't want biological kids, but if I do get married I will likely foster.

  13. I'm in Canada. Opinions vary person to person, but I think there is a strong, unspoken, negative undercurrent that festers in the actions of certain people. We're often treated as objects even by "friends" and if we don't fit a certain mold we are tossed aside for a more "fun, agreeable" gay man. I think a lot of Middle Eastern countries would qualify as the least accepting because of the forced sex changes.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

#3: I never thought about Drag being a way to support gay men with tips! I honestly don't know too much about drag. That's interesting. I heard Ru Paul was adamant on having males-only in the drag races but recently changed it? Not sure if people were pushing him or what it was.

That's cool that you have been exploring hobbies/interests. I hope that you find that sense of validation that you seek!

#4: For the HIV & STI awareness/using a condom, do you feel schools should advise of safe (gay male) sex? I heard varying opinions on this so I wanted to ask. Some people also say they prefer as a parent to advise their kids, some say kids should have the school teach them. What do you feels is a good way to help gay youth protect themselves against older predatory men as well as prevent drug use? Then finally, how would you go about the prevention of gay boys/men getting sucked into the queer ideologue?

#5: Yes, I noticed that many gay bars, media(ex. Books, movies, shows, etc) and merchandise are being taken/used by people who are not gay (men).

It seems many of the letters in the alphabet soup end up piggybacking on that instead of creating their own content... Slightly off topic, but as the B, I feel we may be one of the worst offenders to that. I wish we had our own media/places instead of intruding on the L & G. We're technically the majority out of the LGB, but for some reason we tend to piggyback off of you guys instead of making our own bars or media etc. I think we're getting a little bit better about doing our own thing, but the B is starting to politicize under the TQ+ and adopting new labels for ourselves such as "queer", "pansexual", "polysexual", "omnisexual", and "bisexual+" when they all mean the same thing---attraction to two-sexes. Those terms are merely a political difference between us and TQ+.

Also curious...do you know of any gay men who legitimately use the term "queer" to define himself? I only ever heard of other bisexuals, straight and some trans people use that term. Do gay men have the similar (big) political divide as bisexuals?

I was also curious on the word "TEHM", I saw some GC gay men use it on purpose to make the TRAs angry. The TRAs also tried to make "TELP" a thing.[Trans Exclusive LGB Person/People]...I kid you not...Maybe they are a bit self aware? Hahaha.

#6: I have not experienced any "gayden's" perse, but just nasty fujoshi girls whom are equally disturbing. The only difference is that these fujoshis aren't pretending to be men...unless they are a hayden fujoshi, yikes!

#7: I have a question about the dating scene--are most the men there "in the closet" or open about it? Is it difficult to find others to date? Do you feel gay men and bi men get along well for the most part or not really? I saw some bisexual men memes such as this on: Dating as a bisexual male is a paradox Curious to hear from the gay men's perspective how it is generally like.

#10: Geez, that coworker sounds like a joy to work with. I'm sorry you have to deal with ignorant comments and hypocritical coworkers such as herself. Is this workplace "progressive" too? If it is...that proves that progressives aren't as "tolerant" as they claim. I worked at TQ+ job that spouted about tolerance, but if you were even "slightly" right leaning or even a centrist, they thing you're immoral and terrible for having different opinions. They were extremists...everyday man..was tiring...

#11: That pedophilia stereotype sounds vexing and gross that it was tagged on you guys! It seems like people were trying to make excuses to say "See? Look = teh bad 😈 and 'weird', str8 = gud & Jesus 😇" Do you feel there may be a way to fight this stereotype or I guess change people's perspectives on gay males taking care giver roles? Would have more gay men take up these roles maybe help people rethink?

#13: Ah, the "gay best friend" stereotype is prevalent in Canada? Jeez... That sounds like load of..."fun". Not. Dang, I thought Canadians were very uh...Open to everything? I also heard it was more "safe" and "free" than the USA.

...But then I also heard there was that bill about getting people "in trouble" if this say the wrong pronouns to someone?(restriction of freedom of speech, no?) I do not know the Canadian politics, but that is the bit I heard. Do you like Canada? Do you feel it is mostly good with just the TRA being bad part perhaps? My country is shit based on violence and such. The country I am currently in is...OK. I guess.

Edit: format

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Ru was adamant on it being males only but got pushed to the brink of making an exception due to backlash.

  2. The condom thing is something we need to push in adult spaces. I think the promotion of condom use should be done as a catch all for everyone in schools (to prevent pregnancy, STIs, reproductive coercion, etc.). I really don't trust most parents to do the right thing when their kids get old enough and need to know the information. Some parents are not emotionally mature enough to recognize that their kid is getting older and needs to be prepared. My parents didn't really teach me, but when I was 12 I snuck the box of condoms from my dad's bedside table, read the instructions, and tested one to teach myself. Not all kids are going to be that innovative.

The best way to prevent gay teens from being taken advantage of by predators is to have spaces for LGB youth. Adults in charge of these spaces need to be vetted (criminal background check, vulnerable person check), but also need to recognize that by being in charge of these spaces they need to actually hold kids accountable for their shitty actions. If one kid is harassing another (or multiple) and nothing is done, the other kids are going to leave and that puts them at risk of trying to access adult spaces. I sincerely don't believe that most minors who end up Grindr (or craigslist back in the day) started off like that. I do believe they tried to use the resources available to them and those resources failed. I don't know if it's the same for lesbians, but in certain circles I heard rumblings of it. I think the best way to keep these kids from being vulnerable to the queer theory rhetoric is to make sure that the adults in charge are also not sucked in. We need to take back control from these idiots. We have to have a goal in mind when creating spaces rather than just plopping our asses down and calling ourselves "heroes."

As far as protection from drug use, that's trickier. I think we need to be tougher on the use of party drugs in our bars by banning offenders. I know a number of guys who have owned these spaces and some have outright shut them down because of the drug usage. One of the problems is that, once you start introducing non-gay men into our spaces, the drug usage goes up. People treat gay spaces like a place to fuck around and cause havoc. When it was just the boys (bear events), things were much calmer and the problems didn't arise. We need to take ownership of what we make and set firmer boundaries with the people for whom this is just "fun."

  1. I don't know any actual gay men who call themselves queer, but I know a few bi guys who do. The thing is, these guys are often GNC and only have public relationships with men, so they are read as being gay and people take their word as being that of a (pompous) gay man.

TEHM I find funny and the culture that surrounds the type of men who embrace the term is fun to be a part of. It's nice to have other gay men on the same page as you where you can be honest about your experiences.

  1. Gay men and bi men can have tumultuous relationships as two demographics that occupy the same spaces. I find a lot of bi men who prioritize dating men tend to be defensive about gay men's experiences with bi men on the whole. I think it parallels the experiences of lesbians and bi women. I think in being exclusively same-sex attracted, both gay men and lesbian women are hyper aware of how small our potential dating pool is and know we can go a very long time without a relationship due to that. I think a lot of us have also accepted that we may never find a permanent partner and need to plan accordingly. It's why we tend to prioritize dating other gay men and lesbian women because they will be in the same boat and understand.

There are a lot of closeted bi men in the world... a lot more than people would like to think.

  1. The workplace was an office in a college and the workers were from various departments we interacted with. I don't work there anymore, but it was the job that really pushed me to leave my resume at the bathhouse and start working there. I just needed to be around other gay/bi men for a while. But, that job also had it's cons. Working everywhere sucks.

  2. I think the only way to fight it is (a) for gay men to be vocal and call out predatory men in our demographic and to (b) to expose pedos of other demographics. It doesn't help that you have libraries running drag queen story times but not doing background checks on the performers (like what happened in Texas). Way too many woke people refuse to do the jobs they signed up for and it just creates bullshit and chaos.

  3. I don't know if I fully like my country or not. The compelled speech thing is frustrating, but there are times where I would hate to be in America due to the healthcare system. I think there are pros and cons to every country.