What's is this spectrum?

submitted by pacmanla from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]davids877Straight Male Man 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Kinsey did propose a 'spectrum', aka the Kinsey Scale, but still at each end is 'Heterosexual' and 'Homosexual', so yes everyone is on it, but that doesn't mean everyone is bisexual.

https://kinseyinstitute.org/research/publications/kinsey-scale.php

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol I shoulda scrolled down, I just linked that exact same link above before I saw your comment.

[–]slushpilot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I do wonder if the Kinsey scale was designed to soften up homophobia & the perception of gay people at the time it was written. i.e. to present the idea that not all gay people are the stereotypical bears with leather, assless chaps, and hang out at the seedy gay bar...

Now, it seems like it's being used in a wrongheaded way (i.e. that it's a "preference").

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think the concept of "fluidity" is more of a threat to the acceptance of minority sexual orientations than a scale.

Hypothetical take:

If it's not at all permanent and you can just change it whenever you want, then maybe you should change it to fit in with the majority.

Or even worse:

If it's not at all permanent and it can change based on some unknown cause, then maybe we could find that cause and change you to fit in with the majority.

My main problem with the scale itself is the implication that strength of attraction to either sex necessarily decreases as it moves from side to side.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My main problem with the scale itself is the implication that strength of attraction to either sex necessarily decreases as it moves from side to side.

Yes! Been thinking this myself: the "sliding-scale" approach just doesn't really work.

Here's how I put it: the issue is that attraction to both sexes is measured along a single line. As though 1.] the only difference between the two is the degree of attraction one experiences; and 2.] that degree is necessarily fixed.

This seems like a pretty inadequate way of representing bisexuality. First, there may be (and often are) numerous differences in how one is attracted to each sex-- not only with respect to what constitutes your "type", but also how the very attraction itself feels, and the way it works... the "rules" governing it; the patterns and forms that it takes. Second, the degree of attraction can fluctuate-- one may feel more attracted to women at one time, more to men at another (and somewhere in-between at still others). For many bisexuals, this is a dynamic, even complex, thing.

Basically, then, my objection comes down to this model being based on MONOsexual assumptions-- the fact that it just isn't BISEXUAL enough. A single line makes sense from the gay or straight perspective; they have only one sex to measure attraction to. We don't. I think that bisexuals need a pair of scales. Separate, but perhaps intersecting at certain points. Or something like that. Otherwise... you just aren't really getting us.

Cuz we aren't merely what lies between the well-defined poles of gay and straight... we're our own thing.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said. You elaborated it in a way I couldn't put into words. The single line scale is insufficient and misleading. I'm not gonna say attraction is fluid as that implies an overall transience and impermanence to one's sexual orientation which I don't think is true, but there is some ebb and flow over time around a basepoint.

Second, the degree of attraction can fluctuate-- one may feel more attracted to women at one time, more to men at another (and somewhere in-between at still others). For many bisexuals, this is a dynamic, even complex, thing.

Yeah, and said in that way, attraction can also be seen as a relative thing. The Kinsey single scale shows attraction for one sex decreasing as it goes up for the other. But does it really work that way? This is a very "zero sum" model. Like sand in an hourglass.

Basically, then, my objection comes down to this model being based on MONOsexual assumptions-- the fact that it just isn't BISEXUAL enough. A single line makes sense from the gay or straight perspective; they have only one sex to measure attraction to. We don't. I think that bisexuals need a pair of scales. Separate, but perhaps intersecting at certain points. Or something like that. Otherwise... you just aren't really getting us.

Yes, exactly. A pair of scales(Meters?). Female and Male attraction. And when one goes up or down in degree, the other may or may not necessarily move at all. But there is still relative movement as long as one changes. One attraction may become dominant over the other over time. And this would be unique to Bisexuals.

The Monosexual model can either be a same sex or opposite sex single attraction scale. The level/degree of which can fluctuate like a Bisexual's would, except the movement is not half as noticeable because there is no juxtaposition. In other words, A gay male, lesbian, or straight male/female will have natural ebbs and flows in attraction to a single sex, but these go relatively unnoticed because they don't have attractions to a second sex to compare it too.

Anyway, it's clearly a very rough idea for an alternate model but it's helpful in that it negates both the "Everyone's Bisexual" or "Sexuality is fluid and changeable" concepts which monosexuals have to deal with. The tldr of the model goes like this:

  1. Heterosexuals get a opposite sex attraction scale.
  2. Homosexuals get a same sex attraction scale.
  3. Bisexuals get same and opposite sex attraction scales.
  4. The level in each scale can change over time. Perhaps independent of each other when it comes to Bi?.

Now, this is currently overly simplistic and probably only really useful as a potential visualization exercise for bisexuals and those who want to understand the difference between sexual orientations. But I think it may become useful in a way that the Kinsey scale isn't.

Edit: Also, Aces. The Kinsey Scale does not account for Asexuals. But maybe this model with it's 'degrees of attraction' can.

[–]slushpilot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My point was that it means different things now than it did then.

Think back to Seinfeld's "not that there's anything wrong with that" bit. We're well past that now.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I get that; It's definitely being used in a way it wasn't originally meant to. And it's current use more misinforms then enlightens.