RantSo a friend came out as bi, I guess? (Bi people help)

submitted by oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Not all bis are genderculty, I swear!!

[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Was just replying to Ladis's comment, it is messed up you guys get lumped in with the bisexual-identifying fetishists and "I'm open-minded!" trans rights activists. Seems like some people here are trying to get the bisexual representation going, though. :)

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

bisexual-identifying fetishists

We're referring to the chasers and/or "pansexuals" right? Or is this some new group that came out?

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Correct. Chasers being GAMPs, and there was a paper about how even those who had both self-reported and physiological patterns of attraction that were heterosexual, were likely to call themselves bisexual anyway if they were very into the fetish.

[–]BiHorror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Ah, just searched that up and sheesh... That shit is quite interesting. They're like some weird form of "heterosexuality."

Edit: words

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yup, exactly. Heterosexuality but with a fetish. If you're curious I can link the paper, it's somewhere in my email!

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yes, please! That'll be great. Thanks.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Sure!

Here's a link to a summary of the article, in case you wanted to google it yourself. It's called "Who are gynandromorphophilic men? Characterizing men with sexual interest in transgender women" (Hsu et al., 2016) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26498424/

I downloaded it for free by just googling the title and clicking on this link (but if you don't trust an internet rando, feel free to just google the title :) ) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://d-miller.github.io/assets/HsuEtAl2015.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwji_czx76XtAhV2FzQIHQTCAs8QFjABegQIDhAB&usg=AOvVaw1fUSThsBUg9uVwf8rUAuuB

Now-- note that this study only involved male participants, so it only provides evidence for the "fetish -> bisexual identification" pattern in men. They write:

Similar to past samples (e.g. Weinberg & Williams, 2010), our GAMP men were moderately likely to identify as bisexual. Their bisexual identities, however, did not correlate with their sexual arousal to male stimuli. Instead, bisexual identification was positively associated with degree of autogynephilia

The paper has some good graphs for ease of interpretation. It's pretty short, would recommend the whole thing!

Again, this type of study hasn't been done on women yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar (or slightly different, with more female trans chasers identifying as "lesbian" than "bisexual"?).

edit: formatting and stuff.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! I'll be sure to give it a read! It's so weird how some of them could still be considered heterosexual. Especially when sexuality is always to do with sex.

Again, this type of study hasn't been done on women yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar (or slightly different, with more female trans chasers identifying as "lesbian" than "bisexual"?).

Wouldn't be surprised. That or as "pansexual," I always noticed women (more than men) always labeled themselves as pan more but who knows.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Man, that was an interesting read! But the next question would then be: what are trans chasers who are "gay" be considered? If GAMPs are considered heterosexual... What would, for example, a "gay" man into the mixed characteristics be considered (not transwomen but for transmen)? A reverse GAMP? AGMP?

Edit: adding/deleting words

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's a good question... and to be honest, I don't have a good answer, I haven't heard of that example studied in the research literature-- a gay man who fetishizes transmen. This won't answer your question but it might be tangentially of interest to you, if you haven't seen it before; it's an interview with Ray Blanchard where he talks about autohomoeroticism in women (who want to become gay men). https://quillette.com/2019/11/06/what-is-autogynephilia-an-interview-with-dr-ray-blanchard/

Also... just in case you're interested, shortly after I shared this with you I ended up getting in a multi-day, multi-person debate over this topic (with a substantial amount of agreement between some of us at the end!). If you're really curious, this is where it started, and it ended up going a LONG ways in several directions: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/6w7h/yes_even_buck_angel/q9cq

Feel free to decide for yourself, of course, but here's MY take:

  • A paraphilia is a consistent pattern of sexual arousal about an "atypical interest" i.e. anything that is not human sex (male/female, human genitals, etc.). Source: DSM-5 definition discussed here http://jaapl.org/content/42/2/191

  • Sexual orientation is a consistent pattern of sexual arousal related to human sex (male/female)

One of the people I was talking to, strictly, apparently does not define GAMP the way that I do, and the way that is cited in that study, so I was not persuaded by many of their comments. However, they (and GatitoMalo) made the important point that regardless of whether or not someone is actually attracted to the same sex-- if that person has relationships with people of their own sex, it doesn't matter to homophobes if it's because of a paraphilia and not homosexuality/bisexuality. So in some contexts, e.g. when working towards eliminating discrimination towards LGB couples, it might actually just make sense to refer to someone with a paraphilia as "bisexual" even though they really are not.

edit: formatting

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

If you read my post until the end, you'd know I know that. You are contributing nothing to this conversation. I'm asking for help precisely because I don't want to put all bisexuals "in a box".

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think you started putting them in a box as soon as you felt the need to make this post.

As for wokeness, see if the person has woke interests (ie. votes Dem, BLM, other virtue signifiers). Ask about subtle peaking stories (gc related).

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry that you feel this way. If you think it's better that I totally ignore this "reservations" I now have before getting to know better a bisexual person and not give them a chance to actually know them, you could've just said so haha. Now seriously, I'm trying to know how to deal with this, and again, you're not helping.

As for wokeness, see if the person has woke interests (ie. votes Dem, BLM, other virtue signifiers). Ask about subtle peaking stories (gc related).

Yes. She posts often about BLM, feminism stuff, lgbtq+ stuff. Another reason why I'm wary of her. I'm not wary of her simply because she's bi. But it doesn't seem you're getting this.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If you are wary, I suggest you don't engage her. Bis get all the hate from LG communities anyways.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao. Now you're victimizing yourself. I'm making this post because I do care about old school bi people. And you have nothing to do besides victimizing yourself. Okay. Just leave and stop contributing nothing to this conversation.