all 66 comments

[–]DummDick_998634230 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

So basically, I feel like I need to firstly analyse how 'woke' the bisexual person to see if he/she's a decent bisexual person.

Jeez, a little unrelated, but this sounds like me lately. Anytime I consume media that has Homo/Bi characters (Especially very outwardly ones) I end up worrying and going: "Is this going to be wokey-shit representation?". Wokeys and their "rEpReSeNtAtIoN" of us has made me so distrustful of it because of how bad they represent us.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Like, I'd honestly prefer no representation over woke representation. I'm not going to hate or criticise a show if it's doesn't have gay characters, especially if it's a period of time or location where it is unlikely to have gay characters that are openly gay. I'm still fuming over the sassy gay best friend in Mary Queen of Scots, where I very distinctly remember him hanging out with Mary and her ladies in waiting and literally saying 'Just think of me as one of the girls' :/

[–]LasagnaRossa 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

especially if it's a period of time or location where it is unlikely to have gay characters that are openly gay.

Like The Haunting of Bly Manor, where the main character is lesbian and everyone, I swear everyone is okay with that, in the rural side of England in the eighties.

And I didn't even see the chemistry between the two girls, but that's me. Many people loved them.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I heard about the shoehorned lesbian plot and I've completely disregarded the series because if it. I bet a lot of the people who enjoyed the representation were either straight or 'queer', whereas actual lesbians and bisexual women found it lacking.

[–]LasagnaRossa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The straight couple was more genuine, in my opinion. I liked them a lot.

Anyway, it's a nice drama, if you don't mind the horror vibes. If you're looking for something more scary like its predecessor, you'll be disappointed.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I might just stick to the original story, The Turn of the Screw, and The Innocents, from the 60s, which is a fantastic watch.

[–]dramasexual 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I thought it was cute and well-done. It was a bit of a "what?" that people in the 80s didn't have a problem with it, but if you can accept that inaccuracy it didn't feel shoehorned at all imo and it flowed really well with the rest of the story.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean that’s the thing, it’s hard to have both a historically accurate and reasonably happy lesbian or bisexual plot. So I can forgive historically inaccurate lack of homophobia because the time period wasn’t important to the plot other than so time could pass to connect it to the present. But I felt the chemistry. Probably in part because I get vibes from Victoria Pedretti the actress.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here. It occurs to me that this might be an experience unique to the past 5-10 years, as opposed to say 20 years ago or more-- watching for liberal homophobia, that is.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I also find myself looking sideways at anyone who sounds woke, because pretty soon, they are going to start regurgitating things they haven't thought about and don't know enough about. I don't blame you for being wary. I'd be the same. But not because someone seems bisexual, just because if they say enough woke things that relate to marginalizing gay people or women in the guise of trans acceptance, I'm going to back away.

I would say take it slow and let her reveal her attitudes to you innocuously over time. Sadly, this is the world we currently live in. Or you can just be forthright, but I could not fault you for not taking that road. I don't.

I think a bunch of my woke friends actually are unaware of the layers of insanity that go along with dutiful agreement with TRA priorities. I think they're hearing a very diluted version and since it mostly doesn't affect them, they don't wonder if there might be more to it, i.e. they don't think very hard, for example, about why "TERF" is a slur and whether or not blind acceptance of that is all that wise. (Which contemplation is the one that led me here, via Reddit. For a minute or two I accepted that, too, but the vitriol didn't at all seem to match the complaints. Turns out there's a reason for that.)

It isn't your job to lead all of those who are asleep (funny, given how woke they think they already are) to awareness, so I agree with a pick-your-battles approach. This doesn't need to be one. Sucks for her, but your sanity and safety matter, too.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Not all bis are genderculty, I swear!!

[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Was just replying to Ladis's comment, it is messed up you guys get lumped in with the bisexual-identifying fetishists and "I'm open-minded!" trans rights activists. Seems like some people here are trying to get the bisexual representation going, though. :)

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

bisexual-identifying fetishists

We're referring to the chasers and/or "pansexuals" right? Or is this some new group that came out?

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Correct. Chasers being GAMPs, and there was a paper about how even those who had both self-reported and physiological patterns of attraction that were heterosexual, were likely to call themselves bisexual anyway if they were very into the fetish.

[–]BiHorror 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Ah, just searched that up and sheesh... That shit is quite interesting. They're like some weird form of "heterosexuality."

Edit: words

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yup, exactly. Heterosexuality but with a fetish. If you're curious I can link the paper, it's somewhere in my email!

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yes, please! That'll be great. Thanks.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Sure!

Here's a link to a summary of the article, in case you wanted to google it yourself. It's called "Who are gynandromorphophilic men? Characterizing men with sexual interest in transgender women" (Hsu et al., 2016) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26498424/

I downloaded it for free by just googling the title and clicking on this link (but if you don't trust an internet rando, feel free to just google the title :) ) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://d-miller.github.io/assets/HsuEtAl2015.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwji_czx76XtAhV2FzQIHQTCAs8QFjABegQIDhAB&usg=AOvVaw1fUSThsBUg9uVwf8rUAuuB

Now-- note that this study only involved male participants, so it only provides evidence for the "fetish -> bisexual identification" pattern in men. They write:

Similar to past samples (e.g. Weinberg & Williams, 2010), our GAMP men were moderately likely to identify as bisexual. Their bisexual identities, however, did not correlate with their sexual arousal to male stimuli. Instead, bisexual identification was positively associated with degree of autogynephilia

The paper has some good graphs for ease of interpretation. It's pretty short, would recommend the whole thing!

Again, this type of study hasn't been done on women yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar (or slightly different, with more female trans chasers identifying as "lesbian" than "bisexual"?).

edit: formatting and stuff.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! I'll be sure to give it a read! It's so weird how some of them could still be considered heterosexual. Especially when sexuality is always to do with sex.

Again, this type of study hasn't been done on women yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar (or slightly different, with more female trans chasers identifying as "lesbian" than "bisexual"?).

Wouldn't be surprised. That or as "pansexual," I always noticed women (more than men) always labeled themselves as pan more but who knows.

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Man, that was an interesting read! But the next question would then be: what are trans chasers who are "gay" be considered? If GAMPs are considered heterosexual... What would, for example, a "gay" man into the mixed characteristics be considered (not transwomen but for transmen)? A reverse GAMP? AGMP?

Edit: adding/deleting words

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's a good question... and to be honest, I don't have a good answer, I haven't heard of that example studied in the research literature-- a gay man who fetishizes transmen. This won't answer your question but it might be tangentially of interest to you, if you haven't seen it before; it's an interview with Ray Blanchard where he talks about autohomoeroticism in women (who want to become gay men). https://quillette.com/2019/11/06/what-is-autogynephilia-an-interview-with-dr-ray-blanchard/


Also... just in case you're interested, shortly after I shared this with you I ended up getting in a multi-day, multi-person debate over this topic (with a substantial amount of agreement between some of us at the end!). If you're really curious, this is where it started, and it ended up going a LONG ways in several directions: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/6w7h/yes_even_buck_angel/q9cq

Feel free to decide for yourself, of course, but here's MY take:

  • A paraphilia is a consistent pattern of sexual arousal about an "atypical interest" i.e. anything that is not human sex (male/female, human genitals, etc.). Source: DSM-5 definition discussed here http://jaapl.org/content/42/2/191

  • Sexual orientation is a consistent pattern of sexual arousal related to human sex (male/female)

One of the people I was talking to, strictly, apparently does not define GAMP the way that I do, and the way that is cited in that study, so I was not persuaded by many of their comments. However, they (and GatitoMalo) made the important point that regardless of whether or not someone is actually attracted to the same sex-- if that person has relationships with people of their own sex, it doesn't matter to homophobes if it's because of a paraphilia and not homosexuality/bisexuality. So in some contexts, e.g. when working towards eliminating discrimination towards LGB couples, it might actually just make sense to refer to someone with a paraphilia as "bisexual" even though they really are not.

edit: formatting

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

If you read my post until the end, you'd know I know that. You are contributing nothing to this conversation. I'm asking for help precisely because I don't want to put all bisexuals "in a box".

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think you started putting them in a box as soon as you felt the need to make this post.

As for wokeness, see if the person has woke interests (ie. votes Dem, BLM, other virtue signifiers). Ask about subtle peaking stories (gc related).

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry that you feel this way. If you think it's better that I totally ignore this "reservations" I now have before getting to know better a bisexual person and not give them a chance to actually know them, you could've just said so haha. Now seriously, I'm trying to know how to deal with this, and again, you're not helping.

As for wokeness, see if the person has woke interests (ie. votes Dem, BLM, other virtue signifiers). Ask about subtle peaking stories (gc related).

Yes. She posts often about BLM, feminism stuff, lgbtq+ stuff. Another reason why I'm wary of her. I'm not wary of her simply because she's bi. But it doesn't seem you're getting this.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If you are wary, I suggest you don't engage her. Bis get all the hate from LG communities anyways.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao. Now you're victimizing yourself. I'm making this post because I do care about old school bi people. And you have nothing to do besides victimizing yourself. Okay. Just leave and stop contributing nothing to this conversation.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think for the time being it's best that you don't come out to your friend until you're sure that she'll accept you as you are and until you're sure that she won't pressure you to accept transwomen, not be a gold star lesbian, etc.

In my personal experience, I've got bi friends who don't understand why some lesbians aren't interested in bisexual women, especially if they're bisexual women who have only had male partners up until that point. You've got very different sexualities, even though lesbians and bisexual women share a love of women.

She also might have preconceived notions about lesbians, which she might apply to you if you come out. Until you're aware of what her stance is on many issues, I would recommend that you be cautious around revealing your sexuality to her.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"You've got very different sexualities, even though lesbians and bisexual women share a love of women."

If one thing I've come to realise in a broader level with this TQ+ ideology was this. Indeed, the way I see the world and my life experience is totally different from bisexual women, despite of both sharing the love for women.

Thank you for your answer. I'll keep all of those in mind.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

So basically, I feel like I need to firstly analyse how 'woke' the bisexual person to see if he/she's a decent bisexual person. And I didn't come out to her because I've already seen typical red flags from her such as "Oh, I don't need to label myself, everyone's on a spectrum". When I asked her, for example, what kind of guys and girls does she like, she said she "didn't know, all she knows is that she's attracted to some women". Basically she always gave very vague, non concrete answers.

This actually sounds a lot like me. I think people are too invested in sexuality labels. In my ideal world, you wouldn't try to figure out if someone is gay/straight/bi before asking them out, you'd just ask them out (and immediately respect a "No, thanks"). I also don't know how to summarily explain what I'm attracted to, because everything I can mention comes with a dozen exceptions, and exceptions to those exceptions. It's a matter of "I know hot when I see it." I'd also give vague, non-committal answers if someone I didn't trust very well was asking.

Why don't you feel safe around this person? You say she's your friend. Have you ever talked politics with her? Gave your own opinion on current events? Maybe the best way to get the answers you want is to be more direct. Not necessarily point-blank doing a survey of her attitudes, but bring the topic around to these issues and see what her opinions are.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

But unless someone is bisexual, sexuality isn't a spectrum. If you have any sexual interest in both sexes, even if it's a 99/1 split, then you're bisexual. Labels are important if you're only interested in men or women and not both.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

If you have any sexual interest in both sexes, even if it's a 99/1 split, then you're bisexual.

From my perspective, this seems like a poor categorization method. Someone with a 99/1 split is more similar in practice to the 100/0 than to the 1/99. It feels too much like "bisexual" is just a bucket you dump anyone who isn't "pure" enough. I said it before but there's an uncomfortable undertone that reminds me of the "one drop rule" of racial purity, that anyone who is even slightly impure is "mixed".

But unless someone is bisexual, sexuality isn't a spectrum.

You have homosexual attraction and heterosexual attraction, and those can exist in any amount in a person. That's a spectrum.

Labels are important if you're only interested in men or women and not both.

What do you need to use the label for? Serious question. What do you see as the practical purpose(s) of the label, and why would it be different for bisexuals?

[–]peaked2020 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you are capable of being attracted to vagina and penis you are bisexual... it’s not “purity”... making this about racism is pathetic

[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It feels too much like "bisexual" is just a bucket you dump anyone who isn't "pure" enough.

To be fair, bisexuals are getting a bunch of fetishists, disillusioned straight women and trans rights activists lumped in with them, and then get blamed for those people's actions. So I see where you are coming from with this, and I sympathize.

However, I do think that there are some important distinctions-- emergent characteristics, even-- that arise from a group of people who are only same-sex attracted. I've never fallen for a guy, only women, and I won't be able to live the magical husband-wife life my family expected of me. Having the groups defined the way they are acknowledges that fact, and gives us vocabulary to talk about the experiences of these different groups. So there's a practical reason right there.

[–]BiHorror 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah... Mate, I get you but I'm mixed race and that's a bit uncomfortable to be comparing the two. Especially considering what exactly the one drop rule was used for. It would be better if you used like a favorite food example (like this example someone used on a post I made about hetero/homoflexibility: those who just like really really like cupcakes and those who just like it). But, at the end of the day, if you're attracted to both sexes, im pretty sure you ain't gay/straight. You would be bisexual or homo/heteroflexible.

There's no spectrum in hetero- and homosexuality. They're sexually attracted 100% to the same or opposite sex. If they have a preference within that sexuality, it's still not a spectrum in itself. Gay men who like feminine, masculine, androgynous men are still gay.

Labels are important when they are used to describe and signal things. All for gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals.

Edit: adding and deleting words

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry, I shouldn't have used that sort of description. What I meant was that as soon as someone finds both sexes sexually attractive, even if it's rarely for a particular sex, then that can be considered a spectrum, which is expected from bisexuality. To say the same for homosexuals and heterosexuals is to say that everyone is a little bi, which is incorrect.

As for spectrum, I mean it in the sense of any place between two extremes, the extremes being homo and hetero attraction, much like the Kinsey Scale. If someone is only interested in, say, men, you can't say that their sexuality is a spectrum. At no point are they going to find women sexually attractive, and if they do, then there's no shame in saying that they're bisexual and that their interests lean more towards men than women. That's perfectly fine.

But as a lesbian, I'm never going to find men sexually attractive. I may find some women more attractive than others, but I'm no more or less homosexual as a result.

Ignore the label part, you've made your point. I mostly saw it as a way for a person to weed out a majority of what they're not looking for. For example, if I use a lesbian label on a dating site, that should announce to any men who find me suitable that I am not interested in them. I understand that words have been muddied in recent times, so gay, lesbian, bisexual can mean fuck all these days, so idk. I guess I'm remembering a time when labels genuinely meant something concrete.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If someone is only interested in, say, men, you can't say that their sexuality is a spectrum.

I would agree that an individual's sexuality isn't a spectrum (like a single wavelength of color is not a spectrum) but it lies on a spectrum that exists, which was my real point.

I use a lesbian label on a dating site

See, that's fine. I believe labels are great if they're practical for usefully identifying things. On a dating site, it's totally fair game to say you're lesbian, because it's hugely useful there, as a time saver.

In my ideal world, though, if you saw a woman you fancied you shouldn't need to figure out if she's a lesbian, you'd just ask her out. If she gave a "no", would it really matter if she was straight or just not into you? You're not getting together either way, so there's no practical benefit to having a label in that situation.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Talking about labels outside of dating online, it could help people avoid unpleasant or awkward situations. If you knew someone was straight, you would never hit on them as if it could make them feel targeted, uncomfortable. In an ideal world, we would respect people's boundaries and labels, not suggest they try X or Y. Now, there is the matter of individual taste which puts a wrench in the works :/

[–]peaked2020 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Your ideal world is only useful for bi and straight... it’s not very easy to find a woman who is open to dating other women. It seems like the thing a bi woman with very little experience with women would say...

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's exactly what I thought lmaaaaao. People who say this stuff "why label ourselves" are practically always either straight kind of homophobic people like "you might find a great man one day, you'll never know!" or bisexual people either because they're fluid and so either sex doesn't matter so labels aren't that important or insecure bisexual people, who can't have the courage to own the fact they're bi so they keep on saying these crappy things" everyone's on a spectrum bla bla bla, I don't need a label". It's so funny because it's clear that the people who understood me the most on here were the lesbians, for obvious reasons 😂 I'll reply to everyone after exam.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I know the world we live in is far from the ideal. It's not bad to try to imagine a better world, though? One where lesbians aren't degraded or endangered and are free to act similar to straights in their dating strategy? I'm trying to give OP some more perspective on what her friend might be like, which she asked for.

[–]peaked2020 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have not been here in a while. It’s not that we are not “free” to do it, it’s that it is pointless. You can ask 100 women out, maybe 1-5 of those will be open to serious dating or marriage with a woman. Then comes whether they personally find you attractive and dates go well. Your suggestion is great for bi and straight looking for men and maybe casual encounters with women. It does not help lesbians

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you for your answer. Why I don't feel safe? I'll basically copy paste a part of the answer from Treeofthoughts, because it described it so well: "I know this is basically the reason this forum exists, but still every now and again it bamboozles me, that I would feel pretty comfortable being out to a religious person who may disapprove of me, but will know to be polite as their homophobia is considered unacceptable, yet more wary if I perceive someone as a SJW - because they are allowed to be homophobic in a woke way, and I will put myself at danger (particularly in a work context) if I object."

In what concerns to labels... yeaaaaaah. If you were homosexual and knew that society is so heternormative that you feel the need to constantly come out otherwise you have to be keeping to pretend to like dudes, you'd know how useful labels can be. For dating is also really useful as, unlike for straight and bi people, we don't just "encounter" tons of potential partners on a daily basis. Love doesn't "just" happen without active effort. Labels are really useful for us.

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Labels are really useful for us.

We all have our biases and see the world through our own experience. I'll never claim to speak for all bisexuals (I'm a bit odd no matter what) but I can see how labels are both practical and limiting, and perhaps for lesbians it's much more the former and for bisexuals it's more the latter. I don't like the "baggage" that comes with my label, even if I use it for practical reasons.

My point is that, while I think a bit like your friend, I don't think I'm a homophobe. I've given up on gender ideology as it's an illogical mess. I don't think lesbians should be shamed, or even gently convinced, into trying dick. If you want only biological women, that's your call, and no one else's. I don't think your friend's statement are red flags. You need more information before you jump to judgement. That's all I'm saying.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

First I want to get this out of the way:

Not because I have bias against bisexual people

Yes you do. This entire post is about your reasons for being wary of bisexuals and by extension wary of your friend now that she's come out. This isn't a bad thing. We all have biases. I'm also wary of certain bisexuals for many of the reasons you listed. Again, biases aren't inherently bad, but let's call a spade a spade.

I think it's also important to try not to be wary of her solely because she may be bi (because that gets into biphobia territory), but because she has warped views on sexuality and seems like a wokester. I have biases against most trans people because they're trans, but I'm trying to get out of that mindset and remind myself that it's not the trans-ness itself that's off-putting to me (sometimes). It's the narcissism, the homophobia, the regressive stereotypes, and the misogyny that I take issue with at the heart of it. And they get away with it now because they call themselves trans.

With that being said though, her views are questionable given that she says 'everyone's a little bi'. This isn't a view exclusive to bisexuals though. My straight mom says this. However I think it's a good sign she 'came out' as bi and not pan when she easily could have.

If you're worried about her possibly being fake because she didn't give you a clear answer regarding what kind of girls she likes, I wouldn't be. Not everyone has a type. I definitely have a type regarding the guys I like, but I find women to be easier to look at generally so I'm a lot less picky when it comes to women.

As far as dealing with it, you know her better than we do, so I would say give it time. I agree based on your post she has some questionable views so I don't blame you for not telling her you're a lesbian. If she's woke to a point where it becomes a problem it will be obvious the more she talks about her sexuality. Likewise if she's an old school bi.

She may just be figuring herself out. The fact that she says she doesn't need a label only to call herself bi annoys me a bit. Too many people adopt bisexual as a label when they're really just confused, and it leads to others thinking all the actual bisexuals are just confused.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for this. I'm getting tired of us getting thrown under the bus and you worded this better than I did.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Great answer! Just one thing! She doesn't label herself at all. I'm the one assuming she's bi, because she clearly feels attraction towards both sexes. But, you and others here who said the same thing might be right - she might still be figuring herself out.

"f you're worried about her possibly being fake because she didn't give you a clear answer regarding what kind of girls she likes, I wouldn't be. Not everyone has a type."

She told me in that conversation that she believes everyone has a type, surprisingly. Which leads me to think she's just a very insecure bisexual woman who is still getting comfortable with herself. She didn't say to me "everyone's little bi". She said to me "everyone's on a spectrum". I feel like she's afraid of calling herself bisexual. I feel like she doesn't want the stigma and to deal with the homophobia so she prefers to say she's on the "straight side" of the "spectrum scale", even though she sometimes feel attracted to women. But you may be right as well. She can be confused indeed and still questioning! Thanks for your answer! :)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha. The fact that she's kind of floundering around seems to me that she's afraid to call herself bi like you said, which is really sad. If she likes men and women she's bisexual by definition.

Maybe you can try to causally correct her when she says everyone is on a spectrum or that everyone has a type. Plant the seeds little by little to help her realize that as someone confused about her own sexuality she doesn't get to be the authority on other people's sexualities by making statements like that. Then again, maybe she can avoid getting wrapped up in calling herself pan if she thinks everyone has a type, since pansexuals claim to 'love people, not bodies'.

I dunno. She sounds a little irritating in this regard lol.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will be straight up and honest with you, most times when I meet anyone from the LGB, it's a hit-or-miss on whether they know wtf is going on with the TRA.

If your friend is young and into the movement, she may grow out of it. If you like her and enjoy her company, continue having conversations with her!

My "pansexual" coworker is OK to talk to. She's actually starting to call herself bisexual finally!! We don't see eye to eye on somethings, but that's life. We're both grown and capable of holdig conversations to where we disagree. I tested the waters previously. The convo of transing kids came up. I said I disagreed and that made her upset, and she said "Why not?". So, I explained my backstory of detransitioning and that shut her up and made her change the topic lol. She probably still doesn't agree with me, but at least I planted a seed so oh well.

Also...

Not because I have bias against bisexual people, but because I've come to realise usually people who push the narrative that "everyone's bisexual/little bit gay/everyone's on a spectrum" etc etc are bisexual (my mom included).

Anyone from the LGB can be part of the TRA movement. My former bestfriend was a lesbian and never really liked men, but she was also OBSESSED with labels, calling herself "pansexual" and trying to peg me as a "gender-fluid" or "non-binary"---basically shoving me in boxes I didn't feel comfortable with. She also had a HUGE crush on me too that I did not reciprocate for multitudes of reasons(ex. Extremely jealous, lazy, controlling, made me the "man" out of our...friendship, and into these annoying labels and an extreme fujoshi).

So...there are normal bisexuals out there---most times if they're into the TRA shit, they call themselves "queer" or "pansexual".

One of my old pals is bisexual but she has no knowledge of the TRA crap nor keeps up. She's the old school type.

TLDR; if you ENJOY being around your friend and think she's great, then talk to her about these topics! If you feel unsafe and don't want to, then don't bother.

[–]dandeliondynasty 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

As a bisexual I am also afraid of bisexuals now because the vast majority I know are TRAs. I have >15 bisexual friends & none is gender critical, while at least half of my gay and lesbian friends are. I would assume she is a TRA and may shame you to your mutual friends if you express GC views or even just same sex attraction. The only bisexuals I know who will still be friends with me after knowing my views tend to be over 40 or immigrants who have seen actual homophobia & understand sexual orientation is not something to be shamed for.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for your answer and, in particular, for being so understanding of my stance.

I have >15 bisexual friends & none is gender critical, while at least half of my gay and lesbian friends are.

This is exactly why I've grown to become wary in particular of bisexual people. Do I think ALL bisexual people are TRA? Of course not, and I love "gender critical" bisexual people and old school bisexual people. Do I think all gay or straight people are gender critical? No, but they're definitely more prone to be, simply because we're monosexual. If I tell a gay man/straight woman to lick a vagina or a lesbian/straight man to suck a dick, I'm pretty sure they won't react very well lmao.

Thank you so much for your understanding, once more.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I dunno, the moment someone says "Oh, I don't need to label myself, everyone's on a spectrum" I'm assuming she's just a very straight gal. Double so if you two are young. All teen girls like to play with the notion of bisexuality, doesn't make them real bisexuals.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I get what you're saying, but I don't really think she's straight based on what I know about her. She's had a fling with a woman before and, from what I know about her, it doesn't seem at all to have been for attention or because "it's cool and edgy". But she might be confused indeed. Also, we're not really teens anymore. I'm 23 and she's 21. Thanks for your answer.

[–]BritishbulldogUndecided if Radfem or just TERF 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bisexual here- do what you’re comfortable with. I find the bi community are more indoctrinated than most, so I totally understand your reservations. Basically follow the golden rule of coming out- to whom you’re comfortable, when you’re comfortable.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for your advice, sweet person!

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Perhaps because I don’t really know many out bisexuals, but I don’t see this as a bigger issue with bisexual women than with lesbians. The only real difference to me is that with lesbians there are more opportunities and ways for me to make my points and plant the seeds of doubt about gender ideology because most are totally unaware of all of the rampant homophobia, in large part because they’ve been or were settled into relationships for years.

It’s harder to peak a woke bisexual than a woke gay person because a woke bisexual may have a harder time understanding that gender ideology rejects homosexuality. Then again with bi people, if they call themselves pan you already know they’re a lost cause to avoid. If they call themselves bisexual it shows that they have some resilience to the faddishness of TQ.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You've said it all! Great observations!

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ehh, from this post I would say she sounds more like she's questioning. You could see where she stands or just drop the friendship and part ways. Especially if you "don't feel safe" around her. The second option would probably be for the best.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes! I haven't thought about this, and you might be right! I'm assuming she's bi but she might be still confused or questioning. I sometimes forget about this option because I've known my sexuality for a young age and never had doubts about it, so it still is confusing to me personally how there are people who take so long figuring out because for me it was so obvious haha! Thank you for your answer!

[–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem. I wish the "Q" still meant questioning, because with that, some can use that until they were 100% sure.