A daily reminder from Buck Angel:

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[–]reluctant_commenter 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think it all boils down to the question: "Are there real trans people at all? Is trans a real phenomenon?"

I think that many, or maybe even most, of the people on this sub actually do think that trans is a real thing. Tbh, there is not enough scientific evidence either way at this point. I do not (yet) believe that it is all fake.

What I am certain of, is that the vast majority of people saying they are trans, are not actually trans and/or would not benefit from trans medical procedures and drugs-- and at least from what I have seen so far, that is what unites this sub (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty new to the "drop the T" train). AGP, homophobia, the whole yaoi thing, fetishization of gay men and lesbians, internalized misogyny, mental illness. Regardless of whether trans is a real thing, it is overwhelmingly clear that the trans medical industry is a moneymaking system that is perpetuating abuse, violence and hate towards multiple groups.

I could be wrong. Trans could be all fake. But honestly, only time will tell.

[–]ThisSiteIsUnusable 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think most people on here (and gendercrit people and radfems, three overlapping but distinct groups) agree with this. There are some rare people with a mental problem that expresses itself through serious, life altering distress over their body's sex characteristics. For some of these people surgery and hormone treatments may be their best shot at being able to cope with their mental illness and have a decent quality of life. But no, no one who's paying attention can really believe that all of the Aydens on tumblr or Lilys on reddit are suffering from this rare mental disorder.

[–]immersang 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it all boils down to the question: "Are there real trans people at all? Is trans a real phenomenon?"

Ah, but to answer that, first you'd have to answer "what does trans actually mean?" in this case.

If it means how ThisSiteIsUnusable defined it, quote:

There are some rare people with a mental problem that expresses itself through serious, life altering distress over their body's sex characteristics. For some of these people surgery and hormone treatments may be their best shot at being able to cope with their mental illness and have a decent quality of life.

...then yes, I'd agree that this is a real thing. It's just much much rarer than the current trans movement makes it out to be.

Or does it mean "people who are actually born in the wrong body"? Then it's a resounding NO. That's not how nature works.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What the other user was actually saying though, is that they don't think it's a real thing by the first definition you pointed out. That it is not even simply rare-- but rather, that it doesn't exist at all. That is the part to which I was responding to.

Further, to your point: that first definition, the conceptualization of trans as a mental health issue, is the only one I have found that displays consistency. The other ones are just straight-up ideology. But in all truth, we actually don't know for sure even whether that internally consistent first definition is true.

Or does it mean "people who are actually born in the wrong body"? Then it's a resounding NO. That's not how nature works.

I agree, although to be fair, I am pretty sure that this started out as a metaphor and then people started taking it literally, lol.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

[–]immersang 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, I hope I didn't come across as antagonistic towards you / your reply. I didn't mean to. It was more a general statement, not necessarily aimed at you specifically (and I admit I could have made the clearer). Because there are these different definitions it's always a bit of a balancing act. Once you say "yes, I think trans is a real thing" many people these days will just interpret that as "I think being born in the wrong body is an actual thing".

I agree, although to be fair, I am pretty sure that this started out as a metaphor and then people started taking it literally, lol.

You are probably right, yes.

And we see where this is getting us. "No one is actually saying that sex is not real" / "No one actually means that" has by now also turned into people literally saying and meaning just that.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh you're totally fine! I didn't interpret your comment that way at all, but that's thoughtful of you to check :)

Once you say "yes, I think trans is a real thing" many people these days will just interpret that as "I think being born in the wrong body is an actual thing".

Yeah, that's true, that interpretation has become very ubiquitous now.

"No one is actually saying that sex is not real" / "No one actually means that" has by now also turned into people literally saying and meaning just that.

Exaaaactly. It really bothers me when some trans people say stuff like that denying what are common phrases and points of argument for many other trans people.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right, the group sometimes known as "transmed" or "truscum" who believe that trans is a real thing but that it has to be a medical condition is often more closely aligned with GC than with TRA... so they'll be rejected as T*RFs even when they have literally transitioned. It doesn't mean all gender critical people agree that trans medicalism is legit, but it's a different category, in that it's possible to hold both positions - and for many GC types it's kind of an unknown "let's discuss it", so long as we don't just erase women and homosexuals with a wave of the hand.