Hello, I was banned from Reddit for saying that men cannot get pregnant on a thread about pregnancy tests so now I am here. Ideally, I am hoping this is a place that looks just like Reddit, but also allows you to state that men cannot get pregnant in an evidence-based, non-hateful manner.

submitted by SchoolPsychologist from self.Introductions

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[–]Dontcaretoday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

That isn't my personal definition of the word man, it is THE definition.

If you think most of the world thinks that being a man is just a state of mind you are spending way too much time online.

I don't care if someone presents as male. I don't care if they call themselves men.

The line is where we are expected to change our perception of reality to something that is false, like saying men can give birth. They cannot. Trans men can give birth. There is a difference between a man and a trans man and that's ok. Most of the time in real life it doesn't matter and we don't need to acknowledge whether someone is trans or not, but that does not change the fact that only biological females can get pregnant and the rest of the world shouldn't have to pretend men in general can get pregnant just because some people don't like it.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

That isn't my personal definition of the word man, it is THE definition.

The OED has 80 definitions for "man".

Claiming that there's one that is THE definition is ignorant of how language works.

The line is where we are expected to change our perception of reality to something that is false, like saying men can give birth. They cannot. Trans men can give birth.

"Men" as it is commonly used can include trans men. Don't worry about it.

but that does not change the fact that only biological females can get pregnant

That's not a sensible place to draw your line. Uterus transplants have allowed women to become pregnant. It will be soon (if it hasn't happened) that a trans woman will get pregnant.

the world shouldn't have to pretend men in general can get pregnant

We're not pretending men in general can get pregnant. Only some men.

just because some people don't like it.

Don't worry about it.

[–]Dontcaretoday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

A lot of these responses are just being pedantic.

Yes, there are multiple definitions of the word man. In this conversation the one is question was man vs woman. The man is a male human, woman is female human, some people want to change the word man in this context to include female humans now

The line was not specifically birth in particular, it was physical differences between what makes someone male and what makes someone female. Giving birth is a very obvious one that was used an an example. Males having surgically assisted births with transplanted uteruses does not make them more feminine, if anything it calls out how non female they really are that this is the extreme intervention needed for them to simulate naturally occuring functions of a normal women's body. Also, sterile women do not prove this to be untrue. They are the exception and have a medical disorder.

I don't mind trans people existing and doing their things, but I don't want to follow their religion of faith on why anyone can be a man and anyone can be a woman either. I would be happy to ignore it and not worry about it, but it has been taking over lately and even questioning it gets you banned from speaking. Trying to force people to be pro trans by suppression is just making them more anti trans than if the trans people just adopted a live and let live stance themselves.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

The man is the male human is a fine definition. A lot of people use the word man to mean a cis or trans man. Don't worry about it. Words take on extra meanings or change meanings most evenings.

I don't agree that the women who've had a uterus transplant are non-female.

Trans women are an exception too, and have a medical disorder.

Being trans isn't a religion of faith.

It's just people making some personal decisions that don't affect you.

Don't worry about being pro or anti trans. Just don't rape or murder people for being trans, or watch anyone get bullied and not speak up.

[–]Dontcaretoday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I wasn't suggesting that biological women who have had a uterus transplant are non-female. I was saying a trans woman with a uterus transplant would still be non female.

Trans is a mental disorder not a medical disorder. Their bodies function perfectly well, it's their brain that feels like it's wrong. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't still be treated with respect though, or be prevented from transitioning if they are adults and feel like it is the best way for them to find inner peace.

Trans ideology is like a religion because it you don't follow their views without question you get treated like a heretic and pursued. That does affect me if I say something like how trans women shouldn't be involved in women's sports or that it's ridiculous to change terms like "breast feeding" into "chest feeding" because some people don't like being reminded that they have breasts. You should not have to worry about losing your job for saying sex matters in some situations or suggesting that they sometimes push to have personal desires to prioritized over other peoples wants and needs and that their should be balance, but here we are.

I have no interest in treating trans people badly as individuals, they're just people too. I don't like trans activism because of how it is often unreasonable in its expectations for how biological sex should be ignored in situations where it matters and because of how aggressive they get towards anyone who questions them on it. That does effect other people and it is one of the main reasons people are taking issue with it.

I'm not worried about it, I just think their representation needs to be less aggressive and that they should accept logical restrictions like male bodied people not playing women's sports and not medically transitioning teenagers who are at an age where they are still figuring themselves out.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I wasn't suggesting that biological women who have had a uterus transplant are non-female. I was saying a trans woman with a uterus transplant would still be non female.

I did take your meaning. I was pointing out that if you genuinely think that "if anything it calls out how non female they really are that this is the extreme intervention needed for them to simulate naturally occuring functions of a normal women's body", then that argument applies to the women who have had a uterus transplant.

The point wasn't to straw man you, but to question the validity your argument.

Trans is a mental disorder not a medical disorder.

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. Transexualism is, of itself, more complicated. One cause for having a different gender identity that the one assigned at birth is the plethora of intersex conditions that people can have. And not all transexuals suffer from gender dysphoria.

Trans ideology is like a religion because it you don't follow their views without question you get treated like a heretic and pursued.

It's a field where emotions can run high. I'd recommend not caring about it.

That does affect me if I say something like how trans women shouldn't be involved in women's sports

A position that can and should be discussed. My opinion is that it makes sense at the elite level that if men perform better than women, and for that reason there are separate events, then one event should be women and the other open. At the high school level, the camaraderie and teamsmanship are probably more important than the results, and the benefits outweigh the disbenefits to allow female transgender adolescents to compete in team sports with their peers.

or that it's ridiculous to change terms like "breast feeding" into "chest feeding" because some people don't like being reminded that they have breasts.

Yeah, emotions run high. Don't worry about it. I don't think avoiding the word "breast" to save people from being triggered about them is going to catch on outside very niche forums.

You should not have to worry about losing your job for saying sex matters in some situations

What situations are we talking about here?

or suggesting that they sometimes push to have personal desires to prioritized over other peoples wants and needs and that their should be balance, but here we are.

I think everyone does that.

that they should accept logical restrictions like male bodied people not playing women's sports

At the elite level that argument should be made. The logic isn't obvious, because discrimination is a thing that shouldn't be given air.

and not medically transitioning teenagers who are at an age where they are still figuring themselves out.

This is the opposite situation, in the sense that that's being done. We're remarkably good at making sure the diagnosis is correct. I've read that about 80% of children who present with gender dysphoria it corrects with time. But the long term satisfaction with breast implants or mastectomies in transgender patients is more than an order of magnitude better than for other surgical procedures.

The psychologists and parents ensuring that the diagnosis is correct before medically transitioning are being sufficiently cautious.

[–]Dontcaretoday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Gotcha on the uterus transplant thing. I don't think it makes the argument any less valid that some natural born women have it done. They are still female, their bodies just aren't functioning as they should. Trans women not being able to bear children is the norm because male bodies were not made to do that and every single one would need to jump through hoops to make it happen. Basically one is restoring a natural function, the other would be making a body go through an unnatural function.

Situations where sex matters are things like sports, allowing traumatized women to have rape shelters and places like that that are female only, basically anything where the physical differences between trans women and female women become relevant. I don't think the bathroom issue is a much of a problem as people make it out to be, but in other situations like locker rooms where nudity is a thing the trans women should at least be passing and never let their penis show if they have one still. Its not unreasonable for women to be uncomfortable in a changing room around someone who is visibly male.

Letting trans women play with females is probably fine for lower level stuff, but if it is a contact sport or a situation where scholarships are at stake then it should be taken into consideration.

In some cases a teen could be truly transsexual, but the total explosion of trans identifying people suggests that social factors are at play also, and that a lot of people are self diagnosing as being trans when they do not actually have that particular disorder. Are they telling all these excess cases that they are probably not trans and encouraging them to find the other reasons they may be feeling that way? I could be wrong, but it seems like affirming is being encouraged over questioning

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Basically one is restoring a natural function, the other would be making a body go through an unnatural function.

Both required the transplant of a uterus. That's either natural or not.

Situations where sex matters are things like sports, allowing traumatized women to have rape shelters and places like that that are female only, basically anything where the physical differences between trans women and female women become relevant.

Yeah, okay.

I don't think the bathroom issue is a much of a problem as people make it out to be, but in other situations like locker rooms where nudity is a thing the trans women should at least be passing and never let their penis show if they have one still.

Yeah, okay.

In some cases a teen could be truly transsexual, but the total explosion of trans identifying people suggests that social factors are at play also

Or that these people would have suppressed and suffered in the past.

and that a lot of people are self diagnosing as being trans when they do not actually have that particular disorder.

You certainly have to be careful. But they appear to be managing that well.

Are they telling all these excess cases that they are probably not trans and encouraging them to find the other reasons they may be feeling that way?

I believe that they have to weed out most of them anyway. This is why puberty blockers are used, to give the patient more time.

I could be wrong, but it seems like affirming is being encouraged over questioning.

Part of the diagnosis is to see how they do if they dress and live as the other sex. So affirmation in that sense is encouraged. But a lot of care is taken before going on to hormonal treatment.

[–]Dontcaretoday 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not sure if you're just trying to make me think again or something, but really if you can't comprehend how putting a uterus into a man is less natural than putting one into a female I don't know what else to tell you

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

but really if you can't comprehend how putting a uterus into a man is less natural than putting one into a female I don't know what else to tell you

It's the same operation. For the same reason. Unless you've got a particular hang up about the sex assigned at birth affecting "natualness" then they're equally natural.