A question for the community.

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

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[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Go for it, then. Drugging yourself with artificial hormones does cause all sorts of medical side effects which might be worth researching. In the meantime, it would be prudent for these people to acknowledge that their heart attack symptoms will be based on sex.

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

As the name implies, bioidentical hormones are just that... hormones that are biologically identical to the hormones produced by the relevant sex organ. Estrogen bioidenticals, for example, were originally developed for the treatment of post-menopausal symptoms of women. TIMs offer an opportunity to study the longer-term effects of HRT treatment than post-menopause cases can offer.

Meanwhile, what evidence do you have to support the claim of heart attack symptoms being as you describe?

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

...Are you serious right now? Hormones do not work the same in male bodies as they do in female bodies, REGARDLESS of what type of hormones they are or if you are taking them at a comparable rate. TIMs interactions with estrogen can only tell us how males respond to estrogen. It tells us NOTHING about post-menopausal women.

Site your evidence that hormones literally remake physiology, and I'll dig up some studies that say that men remain men and have male symptoms - even after taking estrogen.

[–]RationalNeutral 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why do I get the feeling you will fail to produce evidence after I produce mine? I'll be back in a moment.

Here's the first googled result: https://opentextbc.ca/biology/chapter/18-2-how-hormones-work/

And here's relevant sections:

The cell signaling pathways induced by the steroid hormones regulate specific genes on the cell’s DNA. The hormones and receptor complex act as transcription regulators by increasing or decreasing the synthesis of mRNA molecules of specific genes. This, in turn, determines the amount of corresponding protein that is synthesized by altering gene expression. This protein can be used either to change the structure of the cell or to produce enzymes that catalyze chemical reactions.

Hormones cause cellular changes by binding to receptors on target cells.

Lipid-derived (soluble) hormones can enter the cell by diffusing across the plasma membrane and binding to DNA to regulate gene transcription and to change the cell’s activities by inducing production of proteins that affect, in general, the long-term structure and function of the cell.

Then what of these people that are born with XY genetic makeup, some go on completely unaware of their genetic makeup living lives as women?: https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Then what of these people that are born with XY genetic makeup, some go on completely unaware of their genetic makeup living lives as women?: https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/

LOL, that article says right at the top that these XY people learn that something is amiss during puberty. Coz, you see, menarche is a thing that girls & their parents are well aware of and acutely on the lookout from about age 10 on. Maybe if you knew anything about girls & women, our physiology, our development & our life experiences, you'd realize this.

The average age for girls to get their first period is 12. Which means many get their period at 10 or 11. Some start at 9 or 8; only a period before turning 8 is considered a sign of "precocious puberty" in girls. 98% of girls get their period by the time they turn 15. Girls talk about their periods amongst their friends and female family members - so most girls are very clued in to which of their friends & relatives have started menstruating already, & who hasn't. Sometimes girls being out of sync in this regard can lead to jealousies & rifts in friendships snd amongst sisters. For example, when I first got my period shortly after turning 11, my closest friend got very angry coz she was 15 months older and hadn't gotten hers yet.

Any girl who turns 15 without having gotten a period yet will be very aware that her situation is highly unusual, and she'll likely be extremely worried that "something is wrong" too. Socially, she most likely will feel awkward & "left out." Some other girls who know her situation might be mean to her as a result. But the girl herself will be acutely aware that something is off.

It's total bullshit that there are whole lot of XY people who truly believe themselves to be female who've gotten to adulthood and beyond "completely unaware of their genetic makeup living (their) lives as women" and never questioning their sex when none of them have ever had a period.

[–]RationalNeutral 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, good job.

If only more people in the sub applied a basic level of critical analysis this community as a whole would earn far more credibility for naming itself "gender critical". Unfortunately though, /u/lefterfield did not do that work and for a community that has named itself after critical analysis of gender theory's claims, it is frankly quite infuriating that it took this long for someone call out that bullshit.

So I mean /u/Marktwainiac you have my respect, you do actually follow through in being critical and I appreciate that about your responses.

If only the entire community did as their name implied.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Physiology: the branch of biology that deals with the normal functions of living organisms and their parts. the way in which a living organism or bodily part functions.

So you're giving me an article from a textbook on how hormones bond to a cell. And about unusual chromosome patterns as if that's supposed to be relevant to anything(hint: it's not). What you're needing to find is a study that shows that hormone changes cause physiological changes on a system-wide scale, since your claim is that taking cross sex hormones can change how heart attacks work in male vs female bodies. This would also require showing that hormones are in some way responsible for heart attack symptoms in a normal member of either sex.

So, here's a weird little condition that for some reason only women and TIFs suffer from:

https://cancer-network.org/cancer-information/transgendergender-nonconforming-people-and-cancer/ovarian-cancer-in-transgender-men/

Could you explain to me why, no matter how much testosterone a male, transgender or not, takes, he will never develop ovarian cancer?