New poll: 59% of US men support a ban on TiMs in women's sports, but only 46% of women support banning TiMs. Frankly, I'm sick of women who won't stand up for other women.

submitted by BEB from politico.com

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[–]Nosce_te_ipsum 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I might be wrong, but I think that one factor that contributes to men being more accepting of the reality that they have a physical advantage over women in most sports, is that a lot of them pride themselves in it. I've stumbled upon quite a few guys who make fun of the idea of males in female sports, but not because they actually care about female sports, but because they take pride in knowing they can "wipe the floor" with us, as one of them put it.

And, as GConly said, younger women are the ones who tend to be more supportive of TIMs in women's sports. I suspect this might be happening because third wave feminism has tried to erase every difference between men and women, in an attempt to "empower" women or instill more confidence in them. I remember being a teenage girl and furiously refusing to accept that most men have a strength advantage over most women. It seemed horribly unfair (it still feels that way to me now, after coming to terms with reality).

Other factors that could contribute to young women being in favor of this is that they are more invested in being seen as "good people" who wouldn't deny others their "rights", and also, that a lot of them don't actually play sports, so they don't understand the implications.

[–]BEB[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are being brainwashed from pre-school on. Time to find out what our kids are being taught and band with other parents to stop it if we don't like it.

[–]usehername 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Controlling for other factors (such as size), men only beat women in explosive muscle power. Women have more endurance, and need less rest between sets (when weightlifting). Women's training is hindered by attempts to force them to train like men. The reason that women have smaller skeletons is that they hit puberty earlier than men. Near the end of puberty (I'm talking about the end of development, technically people are fertile before this), males and females both get a surge of estrogen which strengthens the bones and ends the growth of the skeleton. Obesity is more prevalent in females, which can contribute to hitting an early puberty. Sexual abuse also causes early puberty. I also think it's possible that just being sexualized from basically infancy also plays a role, even if a girl is not sexually abused by another person. The fact that estrogen is not filtered out of our water (basically, women on birth control pee it into the water system and we drink it) also plays a role. Women are also discouraged from pursuing athletics and even from playing in a way that they would get any exercise from a young age. Of course, sex-segregated sports are very important, but I just thought I'd tell you this because I felt better (and in some ways, angrier) when I learned it. It's not that women are naturally small and weak, we have been made that way by our environment.

[–]Nosce_te_ipsum 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Those are some good points, some of which I have never heard or considered before. I especially agree that discouraging girls from being as active as boys plays a role in reducing our "raw power", especially since we tend to be the most affected by that message during puberty, when most physical development and growth happens. But I think it also takes a toll on us mentally, because when we become disconnected from what our bodies can do, we might start believing we are much weaker than we actually are, and this feeds into a cycle. Granted, modern life doesn't allow many of us to exercise or be as active as we should be.

One of my grandmothers used to work the fields and do a lot of physical labor in her youth. She was a tiny woman, almost a head smaller than me, and I'm around average size for women in my country. But I've seen her do things that require an impressive amount of physical strength and endurance. And there were bigger and younger women than her, who were not able to pull any of that off, primarily because of a more sedentary lifestyle.

The explosive muscle power you mentioned is a real inborn advantage that men have over us, but it is nice to remember that we're not as weak and helpless as we might think. And that we also have our own physical advantages (than can even give us an edge on men in some sports, which would further justify segregation).

Thanks for the comment!

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem. Keep your head up.

[–]Archie 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just to nitpick, the oestrogen in water from birth control thing is originally a conservative christian talking point.

Most oestrogen in water come from agriculture. 90% from animal manure, specifically. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.htm

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting! A lot of environmental problems would be solved by stopping our reliance on farmed animals.

[–]dreamgerms 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great points!!! I don’t think it’s even accurate to frame us as “weaker”; our bodies are just different. There are physical advantages and disadvantages to both sexes, and pitting them against one another is just simply unfair and not really sportsmanlike. There is a reason we have things like weight classes in boxing and other sports – because it wouldn’t be entertaining or interesting at all to watch a physically larger man just pummel a smaller one. It’s about a fair fight. Segregating sports by sex isn’t ceding that men are better and stronger than women, but rather acknowledging biological differences.

But of course, recognizing biological differences is now a hate crime and punishable by societal banishment, so none of that really matters anymore.