PHILOSOPHY TUBE speaks for all women when she tweets: “Black women get called mannish and aggressive, south Asian girls get belittled for having hair on their faces - the gender cops are out for all of us and there’ll be no trans liberation without WOC liberation” /s

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[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There are some who legitimately seem like they care about women's rights and display awareness of radical feminist issues. The problem is that once you do even a bit of digging, ladybrains always come up eventually and their opposition is really based on those other men not being "real trans" like they are, with "real ladybrains". Then you realise this is all just another gender validation game for them and that they don't care about women at all.

Also, GC would do better if they recognised femininity for the red flag that it is, in both trans-identified men and women.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry, I've obviously not made my point clear. My bad. You say

There are some [TIMs] who legitimately seem like they care about women's rights and display awareness of radical feminist issues.

Which strikes me as a repeat of your earlier claim that

A lot of male trans people that seem on the surface to be allies are even worse misogynists than the liberals

The point I was trying to make is that these sorts of statements would be far more accurate if you added "to me" or "to some" after "seem." You're confusing what you and some other persons believe, assume, think about these men to be inherent characteristics of these men that all observers will and do interpret in exactly the same way.

BTW, I agree that

GC would do better if they recognised femininity for the red flag that it is, in both trans-identified men and women.

Which is why I objected to your initial claim that a lot of TIMs who ape sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex

seem on the surface to be allies [of women and women's rights]

These guys might seem, or on the past seemed, that way to you and to others, but they don't seem or always have seemd that way to everyone.

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Really? Your entire complaint is that I didn't say "to some people" after "seemed"?

Really?

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry, it's not a "complaint" directed at you personally. All my posts are as much for the lurkers and other posters who might read them as for the individual I'm responding to.

I'm trying to make clear the importance of being aware that what we ourselves as individuals perceive about others - and believe to be true of them - is not necessarily what everyone else perceives. Coz there's often a big difference between signals and information that other people are actually putting out, and can be presumed to be evident to everyone, and the signals and messages that we as individuals only think other people are putting out and we then perhaps mistakenly attribute to them.

These are distinctions that are centrally important to understanding how the world and human relations work, and how our own minds work. But sadly, these distinctions are lost on too many today. Coz in many schools, lessons that used to be taught early on - such as always run your perceptions by other people to see if they too see what you see, and don't assume your own impressions represent a/the general or universal norm - are not being taught any more.

These distinctions are also crucially important for girls and women to keep in mind when it comes to the perceptions we have about boys and men and the assumptions we make about male motives and behavior. Female socialization has taught many of us to think and assume the best of men, and to make excuses for them, which causes many of us not to see what other people can see. Which puts many girls and women in danger - and nowadays is also helping to put women's rights at risk.

Honestly, I'm not kvetching just for the helluva it. Sorry to have rankled you.