Joe Biden Tweets Transgender Remembrance

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[–]Spicylikegumbo[S] 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It's not an epidemic, Joe...

[–]oyasuminasai50 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

37 trans/GNC people murdered. Let's say that 0.5% of the American population is trans/GNC. So that's about 1,640,000 trans/GNC people. 37 of 1,640,000 is 2.26 murders per 100,000. That statistic for the general American population is 5.0 per 100,000. So you're actually less likely to be murdered if you're trans/GNC. And that gap is far too large to be due to any significant "under-reporting" of trans/GNC homicides. That would imply that trans homicides are only correctly identified as such ~30% of the time.

But people will just like and retweet this highly misleading statistic time and time again.

No one deserves to die because of their gender identity. But we don't need to peddle myths to have a conversation about anti-LGBT hate crimes.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Also, since most of the trans people murdered are young black or Latino males, their homicide rates really need to be compared to males of the same age, race/ethnicity, geographic locale, socioeconomic status, etc.

In the US, black and Latino TIMs actually are considerably less likely to die of homicide than other males like themselves who don't claim to be trans. For young black men living in high crime areas in the US, being trans seems to make them much, much safer than comparable males who don't say they're trans.

The dramatically lowered rate of homicides for young black TIMs relative to other black males of comparable age, background, locale etc is especially stark when you take into account that trans lobby groups say at least 50% of black TIMs in the US have already been incarcerated. TRAs allege this is solely due to factors like transphobia, racism, unfair policing and an unjust criminal "justice" system... But others might see it as an indicator that these are disadvantaged young men who tend to engage in a high degree of all sorts of criminal activity, experience lots of drug and alcohol addiction, and suffer from general social dysfunction, mental illness, stormy unstable relationships, and lives marred by violence - other people's violence as well as their own.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

US trans advocacy groups say that at least 0.6 percent of the US population is trans. This would mean that 1.98 million people in the US are trans.

So using the 2020 homicide figures, which are unusually high compared to other years, they'd have a murder rate closer to 1.85/100,000.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[–]MezozoicGay 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

As it was already said here: In most EU countries and in the UK total of 0 trans people died at all this year, not even speaking about being killed. While in UK alone domestic abuse rates multiplied by 3, women killed increased almost by 5 times. That is where the real epidemic of violence.

[–]oyasuminasai50 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If you use 0.6% of the population are trans as you did vs. 0.5% like I did then you do get closer to 1.85. You could round and say 2 per 100,000 trans people are murdered, compared to 5 per 100,000 which is what I saw as the murder rate for the general population.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you oyasuminasai50 for checking my figures. I am generally good at arithmetic, but when it comes to turning total homicide figures into rates out of 100,000 of the population, I never feel wholly certain that my computations are correct.

Using FBI homicide stats from 2016, The Violence Policy Center in the USA reported in 2019 that

The homicide rate for black male victims was 37.12 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for male homicide victims was 8.29 per 100,000. For white male homicide victims it was 4.39 per 100,000. The homicide rate for female black victims was 5.07 per 100,000. In comparison, the overall rate for female homicide victims was 1.97 per 100,000. For white female homicide victims it was 1.55 per 100,000.

https://vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide19.pdf

In that same year, 2016, the HRC says 21 trans people died of homicide in the US. All of them natal males.

So that would mean these guys are certainly far, far less likely to die of homicide than any other males as well as most - perhaps all- females, right? What's more, young black males who ID as trans in the US are many, many times less likely to die of homicide than other black males of their same age and life circumstances.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What's more, young black males who ID as trans in the US are many, many times less likely to die of homicide than other black males of their same age and life circumstances.

Most likely it have to do with demographics. Cross sex hormonal therapy cost a lot of money, and to "come out" surroundings must be tolerant enough. This means that they are at least middle class and are living in a less criminal place (for some reason, most transgenders are appearing when people don't have much to worry and can focus more on themselves and their thoughts, OR where transgenders are good income in prostitution). Transgender prostitutes are on "elite" cohort of prostitutes, and "elite" ones are still murdered and abused, but on much lower rate then average prostitutes. In places like Brazil or Latin America (and Thailand), where transwomen are transitioning (often with illegal hormones) to survive the poverty and make some money from any kind of prostitution - murder rates are much higher.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But many of the men who are called "transwomen" nowadays don't take any cross-sex hormones or T-blockers - they're just what used to be called transvestites and cross-dressers who've been repackaged as "brave and stunning" "civil rights pioneers" and given a glossy new brand-name and shiny new public image. Especially today, a good number of TIMs eschew medical interventions; it's all about clothing, makeup and wigs/weaves for them. Even trans advocates tend to use cagey lingo such as "80% of transgender people have either taken GAHT (gender affirming hormone therapy) or want to take GAHT at some point" to obscure the truth that at any given time lots of these guys are not messing with their hormones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6354936/

Moreover, in the US poor TIMs who do want hormones & surgeries for free need only move to one of the many states like CA or NY where Medicaid and other state programs not only provide trans males with all "trans-related" health care at taxpayer's expense, but provide them with free housing and various other benefits too.

This was the case for Jerome Cricket Thunderpussy Nimmons, a TIM from the deep South (GA or AL, I think) the NYTimes profiled on the front page in 2015 for being the first man in NY to receive genital surgery courtesy of NY state and federal taxpayers via Medicaid. Nimmons, who seemed to be a career petty criminal starting in his teens, moved to NYC straight out of getting out of jail in the South, coz in jail he heard NYC gave trans-identified males free housing, health care & lots of other benefits. So of course he boarded a bus to the Big Apple straight away after his release.

The assumption that most black TIMs today are middle class also doesn't fit with how the trans-lobby and propaganda groups characterize these men. A majority of them are usually described as coming from economically deprived backgrounds, with low skills and poor or no job options, and with high degrees of mental illness, homelessness, instability and "interactions with the criminal justice system."

In documents I've linked to on this thread, trans lobby groups say that in the US, 50% of black TIMs - by some counts as many as 68% - have served time in jail/prison. And the CDC says 44% of black TIMs in the US today have HIV but most don't/won't get tested or treated for it. Various surveys show that people who ID as transgender in the US are considerably less likely to be college educated, gainfully employed and are nearly twice as likely to be living in poverty than the rest of the population. And all those figures are for the entire trans population in the US, not just the segment who do sex work, who presumably are not as well off as those who don't work in prostitution.

https://theconversation.com/transgender-americans-are-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-and-poor-127585

Transgender prostitutes are on "elite" cohort of prostitutes, and "elite" ones are still murdered and abused, but on much lower rate then average prostitutes.

Maybe this is the case where you live. But it's definitely not where I'm from (NYC)! Tons of males who used to be called transvestite prostitutes have always been streetwalkers and street hustlers - guys who do their work behind a dumpster, in a back alley, down a dark side street, in a car or cab, in abandoned buildings or seedy hotels and motels where rooms can be rented by the hour.

Nowadays TIMs who do "sex work" might use the internet to get their clients, but I doubt the majority are what anyone would call "elite." Perhaps some TIMs who've had tons of expensive surgeries and look like Gigi Gorgeous, Munroe Bergdorf, Blaire White or Laverne Cox are working as high-priced escorts and meeting clients at the Soho Grand, Ritz Carlton or Hyatt. But this seems not to be the case for the majority, particularly males with skin that is black or brown.

The big transgender survey done by the National Center for Transgender Equality in 2015 found that most American TIMs doing "sex work" were black or brown - and looking at this cohort of males in particular, the survey found that more than 26% had dropped out of school, half had been homeless, 35% had been thrown out of a shelter, 69% had "adverse outcomes in the traditional workforce" (code for couldn't find or keep a regular job), 40.6% said they had HIV, 79% said they had "high levels of interaction with the police," 58.8% said they had been "sent to prison," and only 22% said they lived in households where the income was over $50K per annum (that's income for the entire household, not individual income).

Of course, the findings of the NCTE survey must be taken with a grain of salt since it was done online. Still, nothing I've read about this population, nor my own dealings with and observations of them going back decades*, would cause me to describe most of these men working as prostitutes as either "middle class" or "elite."

https://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/Meaningful%20Work-Full%20Report_FINAL_3.pdf

*To clarify, I'm not a customer, LOL. But I've lived in nabes where black and Latino male transvestite sex workers were a very visible presence on the streets: for many years I went to a gym in a building where there was a large phone sex operation manned mostly by transvestites "of color" who did other kinds of sex work, so these guys were always in the elevators or out in front of the building smoking; and in the height of the HIV-AIDs crisis, I met many whilst doing outreach work. Most came from backgrounds that were quite poor and disadvantaged, and in adulthood were still very far from "middle class" - and none were seen as "elite" amongst prostitutes. They were a far cry from "The Mayflower Madam," and their lives were much more like "Paris Is Burning" than "Pretty Woman." Most had lives that make "Breakfast on Pluto" look like a walk in the park.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, it is even worse than I thought. And it seems that situation is becoming worse and worse yearly.

[–]oyasuminasai50 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These are good statistics. It's a dishonest metric, there's no two ways about it. And frankly, several years ago, I probably believed it. It's frightening how the culture today allows such misinformation to spread. And there's almost no room to set the record straight because it will be viewed as bigoted towards a certain group, even if you're unequivocally correct.

And this is why I'm skeptical of some nonprofits - like the HRC - whose funding relies on constantly drumming up panic around a social problem that is largely dissipating (anti-LGBT discrimination). It allows dishonesty to flourish.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you oyasuminasai50 for replying.

My impression is that young black males who ID as trans are 15-20 times LESS likely to die of homicide than black males of their same age who don't ID as trans. Does that compute in your view?

I agree that what these non-profits like HRC are doing is drumming up panic over dissipating or non-existent threats. Yes, "LGBT" discrimination and assaults still do occur. But honestly, the situation is nothing like in the 1960s, 70s or 80s. Orgs like HRC seem hell-bent on convincing "LGBT" people that the rest of the world wants them/us dead. This strikes me as not only dishonest, but as a form of psychological warfare/terrorism against the very group(s) these bodies are supposed to be advocating for.

[–]Monchichi 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

~30 people getting killed is not an epidemic, and holy fuck where's the rememberance day for the many thousands of women being murdered every day around the world? What utter nonsense.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And even if just talking about their claim about "LGBT need saving and help". Where lesbian, gay, bisexual days of rememberence? Why only transgender one? More gays, bisexuals and lesbians are killed yearly in USA alone than transgender people in whole world combined.

What a "LGBTQ+" organisation and "LGBTQ+" friendly President it is, when they are mentioning only TQ+ part and helping only to TQ+ part, ignoring or throwing under the buss the LGB part (especially lesbians)?

[–]justasking918273 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I think (not sure, though, maybe I'm mixing up things) I once read here (or on the old subreddit) that most of those killed TIMs were prostitutes. Does anyone have any sources for that in case it was true?

[–]MarkTwainiac 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Most of the trans homicides globally are of black male sex workers who dress/pose as women in South America, primarily in Brazil.

Chad Felix Greene, a gay American man who calls himself transgender coz he grew up wanting to be a girl and claimed he was one for a while, looked into the detail at the 118 homicides of trans people in the USA the Human Scrotum Rights Campaign says on its website were killed from 2015 through 2019. He found that the circumstances surrounding the deaths are unknown in 35% of cases (which is consistent with the unsolved homicide rate for the entire population); 37-40% were homicides that occurred with the context of domestic violence (by intimate partners or roommates); and in 29% of cases, the deceased was a prostitute. Other homicides occurred in the contexts of robbery, drug crimes, gang fights, police killings, random acts of violence and accidental homicide.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/04/the-left-is-lying-about-a-hatred-and-violence-epidemic-against-transgender-people/

The trans lobby want us to think that trans people are at risk of being murdered every time they step out of their homes at the hands of violent, hateful transphobes who are out there every minute of every day habitually hunting down trans people. Of course this is not at all true. Many of these homicides are committed within trans people's own homes, and the majority are killed by people they already know and have had prior dealings with. As is the case with all homicides, these murders are intra-racial, meaning that the black TIMs who die of homicide are killed by other black males.

From looking into the 37 supposedly "trans" persons said to have died of homicide in the US in 2020, I can tell you two - a white male and a black female - were shot dead by police. One coz he approached a Colorado officer brandishing a knife and lunging; the other coz she had just murdered a young man in Florida and was waving around a gun threatening to kill other people, including her own mother and the police.

In neither of these two cases - as in most cases in this so-called "epidemic" of "transphobic violence" - was transphobia or the decedent's trans identity apparent factors in the killings. In the Colorado case, the young man was not "presenting as" trans when he was killed; the police officer who shot him had no idea. In the Florida case, the woman who died - who had recently gotten out of federal prison after doing a 10-year stretch for various violent crimes - apparently was intent on "suicide by cop," coz she knew that after committing the murder of the young man, her parole would be automatically revoked and after her almost certain conviction for murder, she'd likely spend the next few decades back in prison. (BTW, consistent with the intra-racial nature of nearly all homicides, the young man she killed was black like she was.)

A third "trans" person to die of homicide in the US this year was stabbed to death whilst in a private residence in Portland, OR attending a vigil for a friend who died in the city's riots in July; that death was one of many in the city's single most murderous month in 30 years. The decedent's friends and acquaintances at the vigil apparently know who did the stabbing, but will not provide any info to the dead person's family or the police.

The media has characterized the lethal stabbing at the vigil as "another person murdered for being transgender," but since this homicide occurred in a private home amongst people who all were presumably in the same extended social circle, many of them probably good friends, it's highly unlikely the killer was a stranger who came in off the street and committed slaughter due to generalized animus towards trans people.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Expanding on my earlier comment, here's something I posted on another thread a month ago:

Trans lobby groups portray every male trans-identified person to die a violent death as an innocent victim attacked and killed merely for being trans. For example, HRC's list of transgender people murdered in 2020 includes a presumably innocent victim named Jayne Thompson. The HRC's entry on Thompson is as follows in its entirety:

Jayne Thompson, a 33-year old white transgender woman, was killed in Mesa County, Colorado, on May 9. She was killed by a Colorado State Patrol trooper and misgendered in initial news reports.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2020

What the HRC leaves out is that according to the police account, Thompson, whose legal name was Jayson, was aggressively approaching and brandishing a 10-inch knife at the police officer who shot him.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/11/man-shot-state-trooper-mesa-county-identified/

Of course, what the police say in officer-involved shootings and killings needs always to be taken with a grain of salt. However, based on video, audio and witness accounts, the DA said the officer was acting in self-defense, and that had Thompson lived he would have been indicted on several serious charges:

District Attorney Dan Rubinstein announced Wednesday that Trooper Jason Wade will not face charges for killing 33-year-old Jayson Thompson, The Daily Sentinel reports.

Thompson ran toward Wade with a knife on a roadside near Grand Junction May 9, authorities said.

Rubinstein determined Wade acted in self-defense based on video and audio evidence and witness interviews.

Felony assault, attempted assault and menacing charges would have been filed against Thompson if he survived the shooting, Rubinstein said.

An investigation found Wade responded to a report of a person standing near Highway 50 for two hours.

Thompson pulled a knife from his waistband and ignored Wade’s orders to drop the weapon. Wade shot him when Thompson lunged at the trooper, a report said.

A jury would likely conclude there was a reasonable belief of imminent danger if a person ran at someone with a knife, Rubinstein said.

Rubinstein’s office, the Colorado Bureau of Investigations and three police and sheriff’s departments took part in the investigation.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/21/no-charges-mesa-county-trooper-shooting/

Similarly, the HRC says this of another of its presumed murder victims:

Aja Raquell Rhone-Spears, who sometimes used the name Rocky Rhone, a Black transgender woman, was killed in Portland, Oregon, on July 28. According to Facebook, she studied at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and was the owner and founder of International Barbie, a Portland-based clothing brand.

What the HRC leaves out is that Spears was one of 15 people to be killed in Portland in July in a spate of violence that made it the city's single most deadly month in 30 years. The HRC also leaves out that Spears died whilst attending a small memorial service in a private home where "a fight broke out" and two people ended up being stabbed:

Portland police say the stabbing happened at a vigil for Tyrell Penney, who was killed in a recent shooting. Police say about 20 or 30 people were at the vigil, when a fight broke out among several people that led to the stabbings.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/police-identify-victim-killed-in-tuesday-stabbing-in-ne-portland.html

I've been to many dozens of funerals, memorial services and vigils. At none did anyone break out in fisticuffs, and at none did anyone end up getting stabbed or killed by other means.

The HRC further leaves out that none of the other persons who attended the vigil with Spears, some of whom were presumably acquaintances or even friends of Spears, is bothering to help find out exactly who killed Spears:

Portland police have said little about Rhone-Spears’ death, other than the stabbing occurred at a vigil for Tyrell Penney, a 27-year-old who had been shot and killed a few days prior. Police said several people were at the scene and may have witnessed the stabbing, but most have refused to talk to police.

“No one is standing up for Aja,” said Tina Pillias, a close friend of Rhone-Spears. “No one is speaking out that was there and knows exactly what happened.”

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/family-of-aja-rhone-spears-still-in-limbo-after-her-july-homicide.html

Yet this hasn't stopped trans advocates, Spears' family and the mainstream media from claiming that Spears was "murdered for being transgender."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/murdered-for-being-transgender-witnesses-saw-her-stabbed-at-vigil-but-no-one-has-been-arrested/ar-BB18jpqw

And the fact that Spears was killed attending a vigil in a private residence did not stop the HRC from claiming that Spears' death is more proof that “Black transgender women are being violently killed in our streets. ”

https://www.hrc.org/news/hrc-mourns-aja-raquell-rhone-spears-black-trans-woman-killed-in-oregon

On its website, the HRC also says this of everyone who has died in the spate of "fatal violence against transgender" people in an attempt to make them all look like saints:

These victims, like all of us, are loving partners, parents, family members, friends and community members. They worked, went to school and attended houses of worship.

That's a statement that's patently not true of each and every one of these so-called victims. Nor is it true of the "all of us" whom the HRC presumes to speak on behalf of. Whilst the majority of TIMs who come out in mid and later life are indeed fathers, plenty of trans people - like the rest of the population - are not parents, and this seems to hold true for those who this year have had the misfortune to die of violence. Similarly, whilst perhaps at one time most of these people worked, went to school and attended houses of worship, it seems a bit of a stretch to portray them all as loving, devoted family types and upstanding community members who spent their lives holding down steady jobs, dutifully going to school and regularly attending church/mosque/synagogue.

IMO, the HRC's attempt to hide that a number of these persons who unfortunately died of homicide had criminal histories, drug and alcohol problems, had violent relationships, did sex work & street hustling, dabbled in all sorts of dodgy and dangerous activities, and were school dropouts as well as atheists and religious apostates seems classist, insensitive to and disdainful of the reality of these mostly black young men's lives, and both religiously conservative and, well, transphobic.

When raising understandable objections to US police violence, high rates of incarceration especially for minorities and the racist prison industrial complex, trans lobby organizations like to play up the fact one of every two American black TIMs have served time behind bars - by some, estimates 67% of black TIMs have. But when some of these males end up dying of violence like so many American males of their age, race, locale, socioeconomic status and background do at such high rates, we're supposed to believe they're all choir boys.

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/TransgenderPeopleBehindBars.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5441521/

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The HRC's - and mainstream media's - reporting on the death of Tony McDade, a TIF, is similarly disingenuous as in the other cases I cited. On its website, HRC says only this:

Tony McDade, a Black transgender man, was killed in Tallhassee, Florida, on May 27. His friends and family shared how he was an energetic, giving person with a big heart.

What the HRC and most of the press reports leave out is that McDade, a convicted felon with history of violence (assault, domestic battery, gun theft and illegal possession, and armed robbery) who unfortunately suffered from major mental health problems (bipolar and schizophrenia), was killed by police after McDade stabbed to death 21-year-old Malik Jackson.

Malik Jackson was the son of Jennifer Jackson, who years ago had been romantically involved with McDade before McDade went trans. Jackson's family says McDade had been stalking and menacing Jennifer since McDade was released from prison after 10 years in January.

The day before McDade killed Malik Jackson and McDade was killed by police, McDade is reported to have broken into Jennifer Jackson's home after two days of sending her text messages professing to love her and threatening to kill her and others (including McDade's own mother and self). Malik Jackson, reportedly in the driveway at the time, then apparently joined with four other guys and beat up McDade.

Exactly what happened isn't clear. Jennifer Jackson's sister, Abigail spoke to WFSU and gave a confusing report that the station didn't do much to clear up when they recounted it. Excerpts:

“I will kill for you and you. You said you’d never leave…," Abigail Jackson is reading from text messages sent by Tony McDade to her sister, Jennifer.

Jennifer is the mother of Malik Jackson, the 21-year-old McDade stabbed and killed immediately before being shot to death by police.

"Malik was a special kid," says Abigail. "Malik loved to fish, dance, listen to music. He worked day in, and day out. He was just a good kid."

A common narrative has been that McDade was killed because of his gender identity. There’s been little mention of the fact he killed Malik before being shot and killed by police and some argue, it's not relevant.

While activists call for justice for McDade, Abigail wants justice for Malik. She believes those arguments dismiss what she feels was the real cause of McDade's and Malik's death.

Several videos taken a day prior to McDade and Malik's death, show McDade getting beat up by a group of men. Activists have pointed to that as an example of violence against transgender people. Yet Jackson says the video alone doesn't tell the full story.

In the days before Malik Jackson and McDade were killed, Abigail said Tony had even threatened to kill his own mother and presented text messages from McDade where he states that. Police were called the night of the fight. Jackson says she told them McDade was armed, and had made threats to kill. She says police went to McDade’s door and knocked, but no one answered.

“At that time they told us, if she comes back call us. And I told them, who would wait around for a crazy B—— with a knife and a gun…?”

After a while, officers left. In January, McDade was released after serving a 10-year prison sentence. Weeks before the killing, he’d had another run-in with police when they were called to a Circle-K in response to McDade allegedly threatening someone with a fake gun that looked real. Jackson questions why McDade was allowed to stay out of jail after both incidents.

“I just feel like they didn’t take the situation serious(ly) With her being a convicted felon, and having a knife and a gun, and because she’s a convicted felon she has no businesses with a knife and a gun.”

https://news.wfsu.org/wfsu-local-news/2020-07-03/malik-jacksons-life-mattered-too-family-tells-its-side-in-tony-mcdade-shooting

[–]justasking918273 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Thanks a lot! I was mainly asking about this aspect because if they seriously wanted to reduce murders of TIMs then why don't they start with reducing murders of prostitutes? Ah, right, because the overwhelming majority of prostitutes are women, and men want to keep on buying women's bodies. Shows that they neither care about women (which we know already anyway) nor TIMs, and the TIMs are too stupid to realize it because they're too busy screaming transphobia...

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

From what I've read, the murder rate for prostitutes in the US is 200/100,000 - many, many, many times higher than the murder rate for the next group most likely to die of homicide in the US, young black males age 14-24 who live in high crime nabes and come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Looking at males who ID as trans who work as prostitutes specifically, another factor that rarely gets mentioned is their high rates of HIV - and their low rates of getting medical care for it, which means many/most of them can spread the infection. According to the CDC, 44% of black males in the US who ID as trans have HIV, but most do not get tested or treated for it.

Not to cast aspersions here, but men who play fast and loose with their own health and the health of their sexual partners seem to have a self-destructive death wish and to be pathologically anti-social. There was lots of this going around during the AIDS crisis of the 1980s and 90s - and many gay men and their physicians to their credit confronted it head-on. But now all that seems to be forgotten, and amongst today's trans community there is no taking responsibility whatsoever for the behaviors that many freely indulge in that are both self-harming and could be harmful - even lethal - to others.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

And /u/justasking918273

Here, their own statistics (and why there no such global organisatiosn for women or LGB?):

https://transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_2020

And text summary: https://transrespect.org/en/tmm-update-tdor-2020/

(can check yearly https://transrespect.org/en/tmm-update-tdor-2018/ - in 2020 were killed less than in 2018, their yearly statistics seems to be from trans rememberance day until trans rememberance day)

And it includes "non-binary transgenders", or who are not taking hormones, and just gender-nonconforming people who said they are "third sex" or "neither of sexes".

And map: https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/

As seen, only 15 of countries have transgenders outlawed, all of those 15 countries have lesbians and gays outlawed as well. 72 countries outlawing gays and 44 outlawing lesbians. So 5 and 3 times more accordingly. In many countries where gays and lesbians are outlawed, it is possible to legally change sex (if you check on previous site on transrespect).

[–]MarkTwainiac 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

I think it's important to use precise language here. The anti-homosexual statutes in the countries mentioned do not mean "gays and lesbians and are outlawed" as you keep saying. Specific acts of homosexual sex are criminalized. Gays and lesbians are not themselves "outlawed." In most systems of jurisprudence, even the most draconian and anti-homosexual ones as found in many Islamic countries, same-sex attraction, desire and love is not against the law; only specific acts are.

I'm not defending any of these countries or their awful laws criminalizing certain homosexual acts. But it doesn't do anyone in or outside those countries any favors to make it appear as though being gay or lesbian in these countries is in itself "outlawed." Engaging in certain kinds of same-sex sexual activities - and getting caught at it - is what's prohibited.

[–]ColoredTwice 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Indeed, but that is not how those laws works. I had no sexual experience at all, yet was sent to be cured of lesbianism.

[–]MarkTwainiac 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I am very sorry for what you've been through. But who sent you "to be cured of lesbianism"? Your family? Church/mosque? School? Were you arrested, tried and convicted of lesbianism and sentenced to punishment for it under your country's laws?

I am not trying to diminish your suffering or the horrible nature of anti-homosexual laws. But being oppressed, picked on and sent for re-education by family, church/mosque is not the same as being "outlawed" by state criminal codes and systems of jurisprudence. Things that are prohibited, taboo, scorned, looked down upon, considered sinful in various cultures are not necessarily "unlawful" by those culture's/society's criminal codes.

Of course in some countries like Iran, it seems one thing leads to another, and it can be hard to entangle which came first. But long before the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1979, homophobia was inherent in Persian and Arabic society and in Islam. Yet these prejudices were mostly enforced by cultural rather than exclusively legal means.

[–]ColoredTwice 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know, but not parents for sure, and church was banned as well, so not them either. Most likely it were my doctors, before I became a lab mouse to others. I was a minor, so most likely either it would be re-educational camp or my parents getting punishment, but my VSD condition "saved" me, as they just thought I am "not fully woman" or "less of a woman and a bit of a man", so tried to "cure" it with different means or to "guess" why I like other girls, started with pumping up me with estrogene and artificially inducing puberty to start, and later with re-assigning me to a boy and pumping with testosterone instead.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My case was when a man came to my house and spend a night there. They just assumed I slept with him. I was already in list of "not good citizens", they had no info on me ever dating a woman, I was a loner and not "a man of collective", and I was already in re-educational camp during my school years for refusing communist ideas, so I was under suspicion. They were not able to find any evidence and I was only 18, so I only served 6 months of unpaid labour (and then sent to obligatory military). Next time they promised to put me in prison for years, if they suspect me sleeping with a man or doing any other anti-communist actions. However, it never happened, as USSR crashed and burned.

Interesting enough that female homosexuality was considered as "sexopathology" and was forced to be cured. Mostly by sending them to spychiatric asylums or making surgeries. Treatment was either with electroshocking women, or transing them into transmen with testosterone and surgeries. Homosexual men who were in prison few times for homosexuality were sending there too, and transing them into transwomen with obligatory surgeries. While male homosexuality was leading to either prison up to three years (or to 5, with special circumstances) or long unpaid labour. And "must be catch up doing it" is BS, as it was just assumed that you have sex (for obvious reasons - you are homosexual and live together) and that's it. If sentence was more than 1 year, than there was just doctors expertise, they were checking anus for "micro-tears" or for sperm signs.

In general homosexuality was seen as "moral degradation of lazy people, and capitalistic propaganda". It was believed that homosexuality just randomly appeared in lazy or greedy people, or in people who had too much heterosexual sex and "got tired of it". So it was learned experience in their eyes, and because of that it was prosecuted - so it not spread on other people like a disease.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

With such wording - it means that there zero countries where homosexual people are outlawed, but 15 countries where transgender people are outlawed (as law bans to lie about your sex and present as opposite sex). So with such view - trans people are much more oppressed indeed.

However, it is still homosexuality that is outlawed, and I am not sure how homosexual people can be without homosexuality, but whatever. Not sure how those laws are fine, if homosexual people can't appear on public, live together without hiding, maybe even need to fake out heterosexual relationship. So maybe those laws are not directly saying that "homosexual people" are against the law, but laws are saying that anything homosexual people do with sexuality is against the law - what the difference? Either prison or be alone whole life, or be in heterosexual relationship which is destroying your mind and soul?